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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#661

Post by benevol »

morgante wrote: post #588
renaudg wrote: post #425

Regarding French salaries again : yes they are lower than elsewhere but with some exceptions, French employers are not the problem : they do pay the same price for you as in other European countries, more or less ! The difference is that your average engineer in France costs them around 1.5-2.5 times the total take home pay, because of high, compulsory labor taxes. In exchange, employees get as standard : * a top not…

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

> With an American tech salary of $200k/yr

Well, that means you're part of the "1%". In that case, you obviously don't have (m)any real problems. So, if you're thinking for the "1%", then your logic holds up.

If on the other hand you believe to be part of the "1%" soon, then this quote may be of interest to you:

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#662

Post by bogomipz »

camus2 wrote: post #42
bogomipz wrote: post #4

Does anyone know how big of an impediment is not knowing French? EDIT: I should have articulated my question better by saying "in the short term." I agree its foolish to not learn the local language if you plan on staying. But if the office language is French that is going to be almost a non-starter for someone who doesn't already speak it. It can be intimidating enough changing jobs in your native language. I know S…

French here. You have to learn french, people in the french administration aren't going to communicate with in you English. Obviously in Paris more and more people know English since it's a touristic area. But it isn't like Berlin,Amsterdam or Brussels where you can live with very little local language knowledge. Correct french is a pain in the ass to learn, the language is needlessly complicated. Frankly If I were a…

Can ask what you do and how you have managed to live and work in all of those countries? That's quite a list.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#663

Post by morgante »

benevol wrote: post #661
morgante wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

> With an American tech salary of $200k/yr Well, that means you're part of the "1%". In that case, you obviously don't have (m)any real problems. So, if you're thinking for the "1%", then your logic holds up. If on the other hand you believe to be part of the "1%" soon, then this quote may be of interest to you: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but…

$200k is closer to 4-5%, not 1%.

More importantly, I'm not making some grand proclamation on morality of French governance vs American governances. I'm just affirming that as a developer, you are much better off in the US (particularly NYC/SV) where such salaries are fairly achievable and common.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#664

Post by morgante »

astrange wrote: post #653
morgante wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not doing all my savings in tax-advantaged accounts, but I get a fair bit through backdoor Roth, solo 401k, and HSA savings. Plus, as a small business owner I can deduct a lot of my expenses.

Is your life plan for everyone to start small tech firms outside Silicon Valley and pay themselves $200k/year? Most developers don't make that much - I don't even think they do in SV.

That sounds like a plan for other people's lives, not a plan for my own. I don't care what you want to do, even if that's working as an underpaid developer in France.

My life plan is to continue building my startup mostly remotely while enjoying the high rate I can charge as an American consultant.

> Most developers don't make that much - I don't even think they do in SV.

$200k is quite standard for a mid-level engineer in SV. If you're not reaching that in total comp, you're probably being underpaid (or being paid in funny money ie. equity).

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#665

Post by morgante »

cgearhart wrote: post #658
morgante wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

No one in America seems to understand how close they are to financial ruin from surprisingly common stuff. My wife has lingering complications from the birth of our last child. My statement of benefits from the insurance company for 2016 shows that they paid $97,000 for her this year, and this was at least the third year in a row at that level. Fortunately, I already had pretty good insurance when this whole mess sta…

Eh, it's just a matter of having and maintaining insurance. Obviously that's important to get right, but it's not like most engineers are walking around without insurance.

That being said, if Republicans actually follow through on repealing the ACA it could get a whole lot more precarious.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#666

Post by [deleted] »

cgearhart wrote: post #658
morgante wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people trot out universal healthcare or pensions as a reason to ignore that European salaries are so much lower. With an American tech salary of $200k/yr, I can pay for all of that (health insurance, student loans, etc.) and still sock away $100k/yr in savings. That $100k is more than enough to build up a massive nest egg which will provide for me better than any pension or unemployment insurance would. If…

No one in America seems to understand how close they are to financial ruin from surprisingly common stuff. My wife has lingering complications from the birth of our last child. My statement of benefits from the insurance company for 2016 shows that they paid $97,000 for her this year, and this was at least the third year in a row at that level. Fortunately, I already had pretty good insurance when this whole mess sta…

[deleted]

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#667

Post by didibus »

morgante wrote: post #612
Jare wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand; this is not about what YOU (or should I say WE, highly sought-after engineers) can have. The point is that it is an ENTIRE COUNTRY (for the most part) that has access to those benefits and standards of living.

Uh, I do understand how socialism works. The point is that, from an individual financial perspective, you're much worse off in the EU. I'm not making a normative judgement, just a financial one.

Well, you can't make an individual perspective and use the plural "you are much worse off in the EU" at the same time.

Some individuals will fare better in the US, but on average, you'll fare better in France.

Now I agree with you, financially as a tech engineer, you'll come out with more money working in the US.

I disagree that the extra money will lead to a better quality of life, but QOL is very personal. Some people find pleasure in life from very different things.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#668

Post by morgante »

didibus wrote: post #667
morgante wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, I do understand how socialism works. The point is that, from an individual financial perspective, you're much worse off in the EU. I'm not making a normative judgement, just a financial one.

Well, you can't make an individual perspective and use the plural "you are much worse off in the EU" at the same time. Some individuals will fare better in the US, but on average, you'll fare better in France. Now I agree with you, financially as a tech engineer, you'll come out with more money working in the US. I disagree that the extra money will lead to a better quality of life, but QOL is very personal. Some peo…

This entire discussion is scoped to engineering salaries, I'm not trying to make arguments about everyone regardless of career.

For any given engineer, they are definitely financially worse off in the EU.

I'm sympathetic to QOL arguments. Personally, I really don't like SV. NYC is fairly nice though. Plus, the real secret is that after working here for a few years you can switch to remote work in an even higher QOL city.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#669

Post by benevol »

morgante wrote: post #663
benevol wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With an American tech salary of $200k/yr Well, that means you're part of the "1%". In that case, you obviously don't have (m)any real problems. So, if you're thinking for the "1%", then your logic holds up. If on the other hand you believe to be part of the "1%" soon, then this quote may be of interest to you: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but…

$200k is closer to 4-5%, not 1%. More importantly, I'm not making some grand proclamation on morality of French governance vs American governances. I'm just affirming that as a developer, you are much better off in the US (particularly NYC/SV) where such salaries are fairly achievable and common.

> I'm not making some grand proclamation on morality

Me neither. The point I was making is:

Due to content in our media/movies (and general culture), most of us tend to think that we will be millionaires in the future, which will lead us to sacrifice some important things and aspects. However, most of us do not end up being millionaires. More precisely: The $200k/yr only holds true for a certain lucky elite.

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