Apple’s declining software quality • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#661

Post by doomlaser » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 12:51 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #570

doomlaser wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was reported in the Isaacson biography: "Apple board member Art Levinson told Isaacson that he phoned Jobs “half a dozen times to lobby for the potential of the apps,” but, according to Isaacson, “Jobs at first quashed the discussion, partly because he felt his team did not have the bandwidth to figure out all the complexities that would be involved in policing third-party app developers.” Apple had already establ…

None of which contradicts my thesis: that it wasn't rejected, but that Apple wasn't ready at the time of release to undertake the task of opening it to all comers. The supposition that it was only due to the outcry of the development community is exactly that, a supposition.

According to an Apple board member it was rejected internally by Jobs himself.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#662

Post by rawTruthHurts » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 12:53 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #414

nostrademons wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I think it's a perception problem. As someone whose starry-eyed Mac obsession predated Windows 95 - Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio, and it was buggy under Jobs. I remember getting plenty of sad Macs under System 6 and 7, and early versions of OS X weren't any better. We just didn't care because Steve Jobs was really good at distracting us with promis…

>> Apple's software has always been buggy. It was buggy under Sculley, it was buggy under Amelio... Classic Mac OS was buggy by design - it didn't have multitasking and memory protection, it was single user... Windows had that same problem before 2000 (well, NT 4, but not many people used that). I use OS X daily and I use Windows 7 daily. I have far fewer issues with OS X for whatever reason that may be. My computers…

... and there goes my macbook (2008?) where windows 7 runs harder better faster than osx, and pretty much more reliably than the monster imac at the office.

Pity that nobody remembers Windows NT4, it was miles better than OS7. I stopped using mac altogheter after starting to use it.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#663

Post by asadkn » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 1:43 PM UTC

Apple fans blow expectations way out of proportions. Apple products are fairly decent but far from perfect. Being a web dev, the only reason I use a MacBook Pro is for having a performant Photoshop without a VM. Otherwise I prefer Ubuntu due to the hardware choice and for almost every other aspect.

To be honest, with the Retina MacBooks, the memory consumption has only increased with the 2x graphics and images becoming more common on the web. But the RAM on a MacBook Pro is seriously lacking. 16GB is simply not enough even without running a VM. All it takes is around 100 browser tabs and an IDE for the ram to exhaust.

I wish they had a 32GB version that's not a desktop. And no, their hardware isn't necessarily perfect - despite what the fans like to believe. I have seen 4/15 MacBooks with pretty uneven display backlight that normal users don't notice. The best thing about MacBooks in 2016 is still the trackpad and a pretty design - everything else is outdated now. You can find equivalent or much better in all other aspects of hardware.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#664

Post by tychuz » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #401

This will be controversial but I believe Linux will become the desktop of choice in the long run. Here's why. Tech like Docker is making it easier to deploy whole systems of software, not just in the cloud. Google has put most of the apps 99% of users use 99% of the time on the Web. Everyday users are moving away from the desktop anyway. And the whole litany of other typically quoted reasons to use Linux like securit…

Linux on desktop is not subpar? Well that is news.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#665

Post by sksixk » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:13 PM UTC

i've been using mac os x as my primary os since the first version (still do on my MBA) and i've never gotten the impression that their software quality was any good: finder, itunes, etc.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#666

Post by rogersmith » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

nxzero wrote: post #145

rogersmith wrote: post #129

I suspect this reflects a wider trend which is most probably a consequence of the ease to ship software nowadays (no need to manufacture physical medium anymore, just ship a hotfix), which incites software companies to skip QA and let early adopters find the bugs themselves...

True, though it's also easier to test code too, right?

But why pay for QA testers when users settle for using buggy products.

Plus this trickles down, if I'm a small start-up founder and I see market leaders get away with half-assed releases despite having a lot more resources, why should I strain my limited budget by investing in QA?

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#667

Post by chris_wot » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #542

elliotec wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither? Not sure which part you are referring. I really believe that it's the best dev platform, I've tried all of them. Ubuntu can come close, but orders of magnitude less user friendly. In my opinion and the opinions of folks I've discussed this with.

I would agree. I love my Macs for dev work. Web dev and app dev alike are an absolute treat with a Unix-style backend but a much more polished front-end. Ubuntu is probably the only Linux distro that comes close to giving me that terminal power without rubbing it in my face constantly when I'm just trying to manage my day to day stuff and, even then, it's not even close to OS X. Windows, on the other hand, is only us…

I still can't work out how to get XCode to load up the LibreOffice gbuild projects. When I do I think I'll probably be a convert. Till then, I guess I remain with vi.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#668

Post by coldtea » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #566

coldtea wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still a total disregard of Fitt's law. Horribly inconsistent keyboard support. Behaviour that should be trivially configurable seemingly set in stone. Still, I think, impossible to cut a file in Finder. The transparency is an abomination. Well, those are not software quality issues. Some of those are design decisions, and have been with us forever, not random accidents: "Cut", for example, has never been on the Mac…

""Cut", for example, has never been on the Mac. " Apple Notes would like a word with you. Specifically the word 'Cut' under the Edit menu. Apple Calendar would also like the word with you. Terminal. Script Editor. Not sure how you come to some conclusion that Cut is not "on the Mac". My Apple devices regularly need me to switch WiFi off and on, in my home which has an Airport Extreme and Express, both with latest fir…

>Not sure how you come to some conclusion that Cut is not "on the Mac".

We're talking about Cut for files (in the Finder), not inside apps.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#669

Post by pwthornton » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #480

pwthornton wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that OS X is more reliable. I have both a Mac and a PC in my office, and my 5K iMac has never crashed. I had some weird issues with Windows 10 after I upgraded my laptop, where it would hang after an update.

I switched from using Windows for 20 years to OS X (excluding Linux for work related stuff.) This is the first time I've been able to work from a laptop with my productivity level as good or better than a desktop. The design and usability surpassed what I expected. I haven't noticed any bugs.

In terms of laptop OSes, OS X is by far the best. It's stable, usable and 100% desktop-OS focused. I can't stand the touchscreen features that Windows 10 tries to still force on you. Somehow my Windows 10 laptop got put into "tablet mode," and it was pretty unusable. I couldn't access the desktop anymore, it was slow and it took awhile to figure out the issue.

I think it was flipped on after an update, but why would I even want to be able to enable that mode on a laptop without a touchscreen?

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#670

Post by wlesieutre » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #618

wlesieutre wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want "Cut" functionality in Finder, you can Copy (cmd-C) followed by Move Item Here (cmd-opt-V). It's non-obvious, but it's there.

So Cmd-C Copy can retroactively remove the file instead of copying it? I think you're proving his case rather well.

Compare to Windows where it's called "Cut" but is really "Copy and mark for maybe deleting if you paste later". It doesn't remove files when they go to the clipboard (which is what cut does literally anywhere else).

And then Paste becomes a destructive operation that deletes your original files, or if you prefer, paste turns into "Move Item Here."

They've taken two different approaches to avoiding accidental data loss by overwriting the clipboard, but I wouldn't say one is inherently more right than the other. Windows makes new actions but has the interface pretend that it's doing the same thing as normal cut and paste. OS X makes the UI less standard, but describes what's being done more explicitly.