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AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

blog.florianherrengt.com

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Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#651

Post by inigyou »

zzrrt wrote: post #648
WalterBright wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A colleague of mine came to me for advice. He wanted one of those high dollar jobs at a well-known MegaCorp. He knew a leetcode test was used by them. I suggested that his top priority was to study the leetcode books for the next 3 weeks. I told him those three weeks would be the best ROI he'd ever make. He did so. He aced the test. He got the job with a huge offer. He agreed that the ROI was out of the park! P.S. I'…

Doesn't this imply that, had your friend not taken your advice, he would have failed and thus been an "obvious fraud", but a mere 3 weeks transformed him from fraud to competent programmer?

No it means he fooled the interviewers

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#652

Post by inigyou »

WalterBright wrote: post #556
leptons wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took an online technical interview recently where there was a check-box they made you click before every section, promising you would not use AI to solve the test for you. After they rejected me I had to point out that their test is selecting for the cheaters.

I would view skeptically any testee who turned in a perfect score. When you check in at the airport, the machine asks you to certify you are not carrying banned items. Of course, one wanting to break the law and carry banned items would certify it. The purpose is that if you get caught with the banned items, and you certified you did not, it's an extra charge they can paste you with.

Once we carried dangerous (not banned) items and selected yes and the first action by the attendant was to come over and say we selected yes by mistake and she selected no for us

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#653

Post by rayiner »

9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #642
rayiner wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll admit I am unsure how such individuals would be chosen. I imagine it would be prudent to learn what processes are used by other licensed professions when choosing such individuals. Licensing organizations disproportionately attract people who enjoy "administrating" over "doing."

Other those who prioritize profits over providing good customer service.

People who enjoy administrating rarely think you’re the “customer” lol.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#654

Post by inigyou »

Silhouette wrote: post #452
e2le wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call me a gatekeeper if you want but, we ended up with a lot of people that just can't do the job. Increasingly I am of the opinion that software engineering aught to be a licensed profession, similar to civil engineers, medical professionals, or lawyers. A board of peers to hold you accountable and a licence that can be revoked at any time. Additionally, legislation could be written to require such licensed indivi…

The problem with making programming a regulated profession is who gets to define the regulations. You are probably imagining that it would be expert developers with a track record of success. I would bet on it being the people who write lots of blog posts and books about programming and give lots of conference keynotes - whether or not those people have any evidence base to support their advocated policies or any per…

Once I was talking about a video game and mentioned a global variable holding a reference to the player character and got the eyes wide open horrified look.

Those people would be writing the regulations.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#655

Post by pickleRick243 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #617
bossyTeacher wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We won't see a gas station clerk write photoshop because we won't need a photoshop. 100% agree. People are looking at the future through the lenses of the current paradigm just like when people from the past imagined the future (our present) in a way which we now find hilarious. Most of the time, the future doesn't bring developments which improve an action in a scalar way (faster, shorter, stronger, etc) but inste…

And the issue here is that this future is bringing fundamental change to the nautre of labor without overriding the need for compensation in order to house and feed the populace. Hence the rejection.

I notice your two comments straddle the contradiction "It's definitely not happening, but also it's terrible that it is."

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#656

Post by gnarlouse »

If there's a real existential pressure on a certain group of engineers, those that escape with their employment will carry evolutionary DNA with them (along with a substantial helping of pure luck) in the form of experience. Those that don't will disappear.

Nothing else this article says matters much in my opinion. If you're concerned about something, do something about it.

AI is still just a tool.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#657

Post by codexon »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #621
codexon wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very little incentive for people to advertise that their product was vibe coded. In fact there's many incentives to hide it. Many people hate AI and why would you invite more competition? Bun gets a lot of hate for vibe coding. I vibe coded to modernize one of my old hobby websites (so not even vibe coding from scratch) and I immediately got anti-AI comments, and I didn't even say I used AI.

Hope it keeps up, then. Social shaming is one of the last real hopes against this since government regulators are compromised.

There's nothing wrong with vibe coding as long as the quality is good.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#658

Post by johnnyanmac »

pickleRick243 wrote: post #655
johnnyanmac wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the issue here is that this future is bringing fundamental change to the nautre of labor without overriding the need for compensation in order to house and feed the populace. Hence the rejection.

I notice your two comments straddle the contradiction "It's definitely not happening, but also it's terrible that it is."

Where was I saying it's not happening?

But if I can clarify my point. It's more that I'm trying to say "Company promises A is happening and B is the necessary consequences to achieve it".

I do not believe A is happening but B is occurring despite that, in order to achieve hidden agenda C. Though in this case, C is not that hidden since every other article has them blabbing out loud about "wow it's going to be so amazing when C happens!"

here,

A = AI is making us more productive than ever

B = This will cause impacts on jobs and the economy as a whole as we realign what labor is

C = Companies make more money than ever as it works towards eliminating labor on massive (90+%) levels in order to maximize profits and moating the idea of knowledge itself

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#659

Post by gnarlouse »

user00005 wrote: post #164

All of this is my fault. I decided to start learning programming about 6 years ago as a possible new career path. The universe was not going to have that so AI was created.

It's YOUR fault! I knew it had to be one of us. Now I know. At least you were honest about it.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#660

Post by johnnyanmac »

codexon wrote: post #657
johnnyanmac wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope it keeps up, then. Social shaming is one of the last real hopes against this since government regulators are compromised.

There's nothing wrong with vibe coding as long as the quality is good.

>as long as the quality is good.

Well that's where we're seemingly at an impasse, no?

I don't even like the term "good vibecoding". The term was implied as a means to just let the computer type its own code and "go with the vibes". i.e. you have no deeper idea on how it works underneath.

Now, AI-assisted coding? It can be good. It can be a rush job. But the idea is that LLM's are in the passenger's seat, not the diver's. Much smaller chance where you have no idea where you're going since you're at the wheel.

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