The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#651

Post by spwa4 » Sat, Jul 04, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #645

spwa4 wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the public key signature of that random public key can't be uniquely identified as belonging to a particular device (allowing for a device to be revocated), then all it takes is 1 compromised phone to make the system insecure ... (to say nothing of the fact that because of EU regulations the secure element is not app accessible on either apple or android. So you won't just be dependent on Google/Apple, you'll be u…

I already described in detail how to do revocations despite the website not being able to identify the device. The whole point of zero knowledge is that you can prove you have possession of information with particular properties, without having to actually reveal the information. I explained how to use this in my first reply to you. You're just repeating your claim without bothering to understand the first thing abou…

And you again switch to dropping the other requirement. You would never be able to find the credentials to revoke to restore security if there is true anonymity.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#652

Post by DennisP » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 12:35 AM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #651

DennisP wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already described in detail how to do revocations despite the website not being able to identify the device. The whole point of zero knowledge is that you can prove you have possession of information with particular properties, without having to actually reveal the information. I explained how to use this in my first reply to you. You're just repeating your claim without bothering to understand the first thing abou…

And you again switch to dropping the other requirement. You would never be able to find the credentials to revoke to restore security if there is true anonymity.

The only requirement I dropped is absolute perfect security, which no system will have and certainly not the nonsense "show your ID to the camera" stuff they're actually using.

I showed how to eliminate proxies, and without that, the only hole is the credentials themselves getting passed around. If that happens at a small scale between people who know each other, it's a minor problem. If a credential gets posted online and widely shared, it's easy to notice and revoke it.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#653

Post by LtWorf » Tue, Jul 07, 2026, 9:39 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #494

DennisP wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying such proxying apps exist now? Can you link a source for me? Regarding my scheme: The only way law enforcement should have access is if they show up and get the phone in their possession, with a warrant. Which could happen any time some teenager posts something without realizing it identifies them. If the teenager has your full credentials, that's when law enforcement sees who you are, and can take what…

> The only way law enforcement should have access is if they show up and get the phone in their possession, with a warrant. Which could happen any time some teenager posts something without realizing it identifies them. It’s beyond crazy that we’re actually talking about police showing up at someone’s house because they suspect a social media post came from an under-18. This is one step away from your local governmen…

Well in Europe you can go to jail for reposting stuff from Russia Today (even if true) and have all of your and your family's money locked if you investigate too much into what Israel is doing…

Time to accept we are the real dictatorships.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#654

Post by spwa4 » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 8:38 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #652

spwa4 wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you again switch to dropping the other requirement. You would never be able to find the credentials to revoke to restore security if there is true anonymity.

The only requirement I dropped is absolute perfect security, which no system will have and certainly not the nonsense "show your ID to the camera" stuff they're actually using. I showed how to eliminate proxies, and without that, the only hole is the credentials themselves getting passed around. If that happens at a small scale between people who know each other, it's a minor problem. If a credential gets posted onli…

No you go in a circle. My claim is: the system can be secure XOR the system can be anonymous.

And you go in circles. One post, you drop anonymity, I point out that leads to security problem, next post you drop security and ... you get back anonymity, I point that out and, guess where we go from there? I mean your list of replies is becoming an ever stronger argument for what you're denying.

Re: The 'papers, please' era of the internet will decimate your privacy

#655

Post by DennisP » Mon, Jul 13, 2026, 3:14 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #654

DennisP wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only requirement I dropped is absolute perfect security, which no system will have and certainly not the nonsense "show your ID to the camera" stuff they're actually using. I showed how to eliminate proxies, and without that, the only hole is the credentials themselves getting passed around. If that happens at a small scale between people who know each other, it's a minor problem. If a credential gets posted onli…

No you go in a circle. My claim is: the system can be secure XOR the system can be anonymous. And you go in circles. One post, you drop anonymity, I point out that leads to security problem, next post you drop security and ... you get back anonymity, I point that out and, guess where we go from there? I mean your list of replies is becoming an ever stronger argument for what you're denying.

At this point I can only ask that you actually read my above comments more closely and think about them. I have exactly the level of security I described in my last comment, with complete anonymity, all with one design. If your claim is that this level of security is insufficient, my answer is that it's more secure than anything actually being used for age verification, by a significant margin.

The reason we keep switching back and forth is that every time you make objection A, and I explain how the system addresses that, you switch to objection B, ignoring that I already explained how the system addresses that as well.