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Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

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Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#651

Post by UltraSane »

antiframe wrote: post #541
UltraSane wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't really accurate to describe those bombings as terrorism when they happened during the largest war in human history.

While I agree there's not a universally agreed upon definition of terrorism, I want to hear more about why you think bombing with novel munitions expressly delivered to dense urban areas which killed 250k people 90% of whom were civilian, in an attempt to scare them into surrender, is not "terrorism".

Because forcing enemies to surrender has always been a valid tactic in war.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#652

Post by cindyllm »

carlosjobim wrote: post #648
Dylan16807 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing people while trying to scare them into surrender is a feature shared by both terrorism and wars. A big bombing campaign done by an army is a war, not a terrorism.

There is no distinct line between war and terrorism. Even before World War II, leaders would proudly and openly call for terrorism against their enemies and civilians. Most notably communist leaders like Lenin, who didn't shy away from using the word "terror" and "terrorism" to describe their own campaigns. As for allied bombings, there is a chapter here on the term "Terror bombings": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St…

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Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#653

Post by throw0101d »

cogman10 wrote: post #355
spwa4 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the Axis (Nazi Germany, Japan) were attacking everyone with the explicitly stated goal of conquering the world (and subjecting it to the holocaust, we might add), and US stopped them, conquered Europe, North Africa, half the Pacific, and nothing has been able to stop the US military since. And the US ... retreated. We might add, the Soviets, the other axis, did not retreat. China did not retreat.…

The US did not retreat. We fought multiple wars to maintain our power and influence. We toppled multiple regimes to maintain puppet governments. Very much the same as the USSR and China have done. Vietnam, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Cuba, Guatemala, Haiti, etc. US conquest was quiet similar to British conquest. They didn't make their conquered people citizens (that'd make things tricky for exploitation) so instead they make…

> Very much the same as the USSR and China have done.

The expressed goal of Communism (USSR, later China) was to spread its ideology to the entire world. The US chose at its goal the containment of Communism:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Article

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment

This is what drove Korea, Vietnam, Cuba/Castro, and many other countries with left-leaning governments. In many cases this ended up with the US supporting the right-wing people, e.g.:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet

> There's a reason the US has military bases across the globe. It's not because they've retreated from their subservient states.

Yes, containment and power projection to keep the sea lanes open for trade (which benefits the US financially and life-style-wise, but also benefits countries who export things, to the US and other places):

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSC_68

If you don't think having peaceful sea lanes is useful, see Houthis/Red Sea and Strait of Hormuz. What we're seeing with Trump's worldview is a return to how things tended to be earlier in history:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#654

Post by jaspervanderee »

Ritewut wrote: post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

Confessions of an Economic Hitman is a book with a similar theme. A guy trained by NSA to be sent to poor countries, making deals through false projections with the goal to extract their natural resources.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#655

Post by throw0101d »

cogman10 wrote: post #446
BobbyJo wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vietnam and Korea were technically wars to stop conquest, no?

Conquest from who? I generally take the word "conquest" to mean some outside force coming in and taking over. That didn't happen in either Vietnam or Korea. You could argue that the USSR used conquest to take over territories for the soviet union. However, that's not something really arguable about Vietnam or Korea. Vietnam, in particular, was the native population overthrowing their conquerors, the french, and then…

> Conquest from who?

The Communists. Would you rather live in North or South Korea?

Vietnam is interesting in that they're still politically authoritarian but willing to be more economically open; see also China. (Just don't say the wrong thing about the wrong people.)

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#656

Post by throw0101d »

psadauskas wrote: post #405
spwa4 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's compare with the Soviets and conclude the obvious: the US did retreat.

The US has over 128 military bases in 55 foreign countries. Russia has 12, mostly in former Soviet countries. China has 3.

> The US has over 128 military bases in 55 foreign countries.

Are those 55 countries forced to have US military bases, or are they willing/happy to have them around?

Estonia wants more US troops:

* https://news.err.ee/1609992007/estonia-signals-willingness-t...

The Philippines is also good with the US expanding its presence:

* https://news.usni.org/2026/02/02/u-s-army-quietly-stands-up-...

* https://time.com/6252750/philippines-us-military-agreement-c...

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#657

Post by throw0101d »

nashashmi wrote: post #639
spwa4 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that the Axis (Nazi Germany, Japan) were attacking everyone with the explicitly stated goal of conquering the world (and subjecting it to the holocaust, we might add), and US stopped them, conquered Europe, North Africa, half the Pacific, and nothing has been able to stop the US military since. And the US ... retreated. We might add, the Soviets, the other axis, did not retreat. China did not retreat.…

Japan did not take part in the Holocaust. Not the goal of Germany nor Italy was the holocaust. Their objective was not to conquer the world. They were empire builders, plain and simple, and they were trying to expand their trade networks, like Britain had done and monopolized. They took over each European state and replaced its leadership with one that benefitted themselves. Their objective was policy frameworks for…

> Japan did not take part in the Holocaust.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women (Japan still ignores complaints to this day)

The Japanese viewed non-Japanese as sub-human. It is no different than Nazis viewing Jews, Slavs, etc, as sub-human.

> The holocaust was a later addon (1940).

At least when it comes to the Nazis, genocide was always the general direction:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

The focus on Jews came a little later:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#659

Post by imjonse »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #578
fwipsy wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically this boils down to "I don't feel responsible for the meat I eat being factory farmed." Not that I'm in any position to criticize; I'm in the cognitive dissonance camp. Have you considered consuming "ethical" animal products (e.g. free range eggs or whatever?) That doesn't seem like martyrdom; compared to what you want (government mandated livestock welfare) it only costs you marginally more (due to missing…

I’m in the same camp. On the other extreme, I find it darkly funny that eating plants is supposed to be okay… Aren’t they alive too? What if they were conscious? If they aren’t but still a lifeform, that makes it perfectly okay? No answers, just makes me wonder at times if common ethics is all it’s cracked up be. Is eating plants not required for sustenance or nutrition really justifiable? (Chocolate, sugar, spices,…

If anyone cares about plants suffering they should go vegan, as many more plants are consumed to raise animals than would be if there was a direct plant intake in humans for the same amount of calories and nutrients. Ditto for land use, water, CO2 emissions, etc. but let's assume our friend cares strictly about reducing suffering short of starving themselves to death.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#660

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #309
1234letshaveatw wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is he doing anything that is hindering Putin? That theory still very much holds. Both Putin and Netanyahu can realistically have kompromat on him, seeing how incredibly brazen and stupid he is.

Only decimating his biggest allies. Putin prob loves that
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