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Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

nytimes.com

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Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#651

Post by loeg »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #611
culi wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transliteration: > [...] not defending [the people who "seem to genuinely be OK with violence"]—or even Luigi (the one who carried out the violence in question)— [...]

Do you have any evidence that Luigi carried out any violence whatsoever? He's been accused of a murder, but there seems to be no appreciation that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Happy to clear this up for you. Only courts of law are held to the “innocent until proven guilty” standard. Ordinary people are free to form and share their own opinions based on reported facts. Mangione is a murderer. Hope that helps!

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#652

Post by JumpCrisscross »

fzeroracer wrote: post #406
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he literally just posted a video on his account of a woman being violently beaten to death with a hammer as a call for people to do something about immigrants Zero dispute. I’m challenging the notion that Americans are rising to that call. (Or cheering on specific attacks, versus general notions of violence.) In a weird way, maybe social media helps in this one instance. We can’t let the enemy be faceless. There is…

You're missing that the Americans rising to the call are employed by the state itself. ICE over Trump's tenure with a burgeoning budget has become filled with folks that were part of known white supremacist groups. The most violent believers have been state sanctioned and paid to inflict his agenda.

> Americans rising to the call are employed by the state itself

This is a problem. But it’s categorically different from vigilantism. That sort of grassroots violence is basically impossible to stop once it gets started without major abrogations of rights, at least temporarily. And we have not seen organized grassroots vigilantes taking up arms to pot Trump’s enemies. Not systematically or at any scale that doesn’t just scream gun-control problems.

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#653

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pesus wrote: post #400
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean to what numerical end do Trump’s supporters pick up arms when he calls them to violence.

This is getting more and more specific - I was talking about him encouraging violence. But some examples: Jan 6, the attack on Paul Pelosi, every ICE agent. Personally, I've also received multiple death threats from his supporters.

Those are real examples, and we should be vigilant about them. My point is they’re still numerically rare compared with population and societies that enter periods of civil strife. (I’m sorry about your own experiences. People say things that are abhorrent. It’s no comfort to know most of them wouldn’t act out on them.)

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#654

Post by pickleRick243 »

nz wrote: post #613
culi wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more and more Americans have what C. Wright Mills called the "sociological imagination". We pour tons of effort into punishing visceral, direct violence like a stabbing or shooting. But if white collar crime is being committed that leads to the death of hundreds of thousands of people, it's rare that anyone sees jail time. Maybe you could argue the decisions of Brian Thompson made only account for maybe 10% o…

This is a long comment, but I swear it is going somewhere (new terminology). Someone once said (I think Kay), that "a change in notation is worth 20 IQ points". Historically, people struggled with presently-mundane basic concepts, such as Darwin's Evolutionary Theory, and Maupertuis' Principle of Least Action, because they lacked the "notation" (concepts, really), that would have allowed them to integrate them into t…

I can't tell how much of this post is describing/LARPing a point of view, or expressing your actual beliefs. The last few paragraphs make me think it's what you actually think though.

Glorious as a personal sentiment isn't exactly how I'd describe the French Revolution.

Yes, stirring up anti-AI hatred is fine as long as it's directed at your I-Banker/PE friends from school who majored in economics, but totally bad if it's directed at you since you majored in Comp Sci (the source of AI to begin with) and went into tech.

"Just that framing, means that a bank "performs" better, when it minimizes deposits and maximizes loans"- is this how you think finance actually works? Maybe first learn how things work before inventing your own terminology or "notation" like sign-flip institution. It's not worth 20 IQ points if it's wrong. The younger generations (and I am a member) are certainly no smarter or wiser than previous generations. Many sure seem to think they are though.

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#655

Post by JumpCrisscross »

MiguelX413 wrote: post #446
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whilst having a distasteful view of the leaders of the industry I have a tremendously distasteful view of a lot of Silicon Valley leadership. Doesn’t mean I want them to suffer at the hands of vigilante justice.

Why not?

> Why not?

I don't wish violent ends on anyone. I'm not open to sacrificing that part of myself in a rich, historically-free society that retains peaceful means of power transfer.

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#656

Post by JumpCrisscross »

overfeed wrote: post #514
MiguelX413 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not?

> Why not? "An old woman is always uneasy when dry bones are mentioned in a proverb" - Chinua Achebe Things Fall Apart

The elites after the French Revolution were not only mostly the same as before, they escaped with so much money and wealth that it’s actually debated if they increased their wealth share through the chaos [1].

Vigilante justice usually starts by aiming for the top (or a minority group, if conducted from the top). But it's inherently anarchic, and eventually attacks anyone vulnerable in striking distance. I have Indian and central European heritage. My dry bones are knowing the cost of violence and value of peace, and degree to which even those who initially embrace violence tended to wind up regretting the offramp they previously precluded.

[1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/650023

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#657

Post by [deleted] »

loeg wrote: post #651
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence that Luigi carried out any violence whatsoever? He's been accused of a murder, but there seems to be no appreciation that people are innocent until proven guilty.

Happy to clear this up for you. Only courts of law are held to the “innocent until proven guilty” standard. Ordinary people are free to form and share their own opinions based on reported facts. Mangione is a murderer. Hope that helps!

[deleted]

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#658

Post by culi »

retrac wrote: post #483
culi wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more and more Americans have what C. Wright Mills called the "sociological imagination". We pour tons of effort into punishing visceral, direct violence like a stabbing or shooting. But if white collar crime is being committed that leads to the death of hundreds of thousands of people, it's rare that anyone sees jail time. Maybe you could argue the decisions of Brian Thompson made only account for maybe 10% o…

I'm reminded of this recent Pew Research poll [1] about whether people believe their fellow citizens are moral. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2026/03/05/in-25-countr...

Fascinating to see Canada and the US and the opposite extremes of that. Also interesting to see Indonesia, who had a massive genocide within living memory, as second most trusting. Most of all I'd love to see this study replicated in different years to get a sense of how quickly these attitudes can change.

Fascinating study. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#659

Post by sumedh »

gattilorenz wrote: post #378
spaghetdefects wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Participating in the child sex trafficking ring, although Wexner's involvement goes far deeper.

The evidence being…

Epstein was murdered in a high security prison so that he does not talk.

Re: Molotov cocktail is hurled at home of Sam Altman

#660

Post by culi »

solid_fuel wrote: post #540
wavemode wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "white collar crime" was Brian Thompson guilty of? As I understand it, he was merely the CEO of an insurance company. Nobody likes how insurance companies do business, but that doesn't make it "crime".

He didn't say "white collar crime." He said "white collar mass murder." The implication here is that it is wrong even though it is not currently illegal .

I won't pretend I had the foresight to purposely make this distinction but I do agree with and stand by this clarification.

The US is a very litigious society and Americans more than any nationality I've met are way too quick to conflate legality and morality. My personal guess is that this derives from a long running lack of class consciousness that is present in most other nations

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