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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#651

Post by ValveFan6969 »

Imnimo wrote: post #149
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#652

Post by sbochins »

arccy wrote: post #594
root_axis wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you allow typing and just consume the state of the text input as the initial state of the js logic?

how you type is also part of the signal

Then track that data and upload when you can make the request.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#653

Post by vlovich123 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #625
electroly wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true in this case; the React application loads first, fully initializes, and then sends its state via Cloudflare request. It can't happen at the same time, by design. It has to happen serially. The article's claim is that you can't type during this second request. Frankly, I wonder if this is actually true at all. The article did not demonstrate this, and there's no problem if you can actually in…

OK, I haven't looked at the exact sequencing here. But generally, once the action goes back to the anti-abuse service for checking the user can't be allowed to change what they're submitting. The view the anti-abuse system saw has to match what the app server sees.

Still incorrect because the user in this case is being prohibited from submitting anything at all.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#656

Post by Tarq0n »

tedsanders wrote: post #377
littlestymaar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they know it's bad, they just don't think the rules apply to them.

For what it's worth, the big AI companies do have opt out mechanisms for scraping and search. OpenAI documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots Anthropic documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/8896518-does-anthropi... I'm not sure if Gemini lets you opt out without also delisting you from Google search rankings.

It seems likely that they buy data from companies who don't obey the same constraints however, making it easy to launder the unethical part through a third party.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#657

Post by tokioyoyo »

jychang wrote: post #355
tokioyoyo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even remotely true, I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. The only time I get captcha'ed is when I sometimes VPN around, or do some custom browser stuff and etc. I'll even say I get captcha'ed less now than maybe 5 years ago.

Just wait until your ISP puts you behind a CGNAT. Or if you ever need to travel a lot and tether off your phone. Most mobile devices are IPV6 only (via 464XLAT) behind a CGNAT these days.

Again, no clue what you’re talking about. The only time I had to deal with shit was when I was travelling a bit sketchy countries. I get that “Cloudfare is verifying your connection” loading screen from time to time, but there’s no captchas involved.

Super majority of people don’t use VPNs, or rare browsers, or avoid fingerprinting and etc. When you browse like regular you don’t notice the friction. That’s the selling point of companies like CF, because website owners don’t want to lose real traffic.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#658

Post by account42 »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

> These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform.

The lack of self awareness...

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#659

Post by Gormo »

gruez wrote: post #45
lucasfin000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real frustrating part is that Cloudflare's "definition" of suspicious keeps changing and expanding. VPN users, privacy-first browsers, uncommon IP ranges, they all get flagged. The people most likely to get caught by these systems are exactly the ones who care most about their privacy, and not the bots that they are apparently targeting.

>The real frustrating part is that Cloudflare's "definition" of suspicious keeps changing and expanding. That's... exactly expected? It's a cat and mouse game. People running botnets or AI scrapers aren't diligently setting the evil bit on their packets.

To the contrary, people running botnets or AI scrapers are likely going out of their way to mimic ordinary web traffic from consumer devices. Ultimately, these measures will only affect users who are trying to protect their privacy and security, and will be ineffective at stopping bots.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#660

Post by Gormo »

Aurornis wrote: post #238
lucasfin000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real frustrating part is that Cloudflare's "definition" of suspicious keeps changing and expanding. VPN users, privacy-first browsers, uncommon IP ranges, they all get flagged. The people most likely to get caught by these systems are exactly the ones who care most about their privacy, and not the bots that they are apparently targeting.

> The people most likely to get caught by these systems are exactly the ones who care most about their privacy, and not the bots that they are apparently targeting. In my brief experience with abuse mitigation, connections coming from VPNs or unusual IP ranges were very significantly more likely to be associated with abuse. It depends on your users. VPNs aren’t common at all, even though you hear about them a lot on…

> In my brief experience with abuse mitigation, connections coming from VPNs or unusual IP ranges were very significantly more likely to be associated with abuse.

Correlating these factors with abuse implies that you already have methods of identifying abuse per se, independently of these factors. Is there no feasible way of just blocking the abuse itself when it begins, or developing much more proximate indicators to act on?

> The worst offenders are Tor IP addresses. Anyone connecting from Tor was basically guaranteed to have bad intentions.

Do you handle this by blocking known Tor exit node IPs entirely, or just adding hurdles to attempts to post from those IPs?

> It’s tough for people who want these things for privacy, but the sad reality is that these same privacy protections are favored by people who are trying to abuse services.

But naturally P(A|B) and P(B|A) are two different things.

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