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Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

wsj.com

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Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#651

Post by hcknwscommenter »

maxlin wrote: post #644
trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

-They only got 130B -They planned to fix all this with 100B? I see what you did there. 70B eh? They only got 50B. A paltry 20B? The real number though, was gotten in a relatively short time. And now replacement tariffs are on the way. And many companies have re-thought of manufacturing outside US with the higher tariffs always being the possibility in the future too.

If the OP had (incorrectly) rounded 130B to 200B, OP's point would have still been perfectly understandable and correct. Your odd quibble about rounding completely misses the point. Whooosh.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#652

Post by hcknwscommenter »

rayiner wrote: post #636
lokar wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm serious. The Trump/MAGA view of foreign policy is that the US sits at the top, we owe friendship to no one. We engage with other nations transactionally, zero sum, with the US always getting more.

That’s always been the U.S. view of foreign policy. MAGA is just honest about it.

You may be right, but the honesty has destroyed an insane amount of good will and privilege that the US previously enjoyed (deservedly or not). To throw that all away for literally no benefit is . . . not good.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#653

Post by danielmarkbruce »

Calavar wrote: post #594
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cantor Fitzgerald is an investment bank. Rather than claim a straw man, think about what they do and how it interacts with the administration. Everything they do is heavily regulated. If they couldn't do anything that gave an appearance of a conflict, they literally couldn't do a single thing that makes up their business and would be hobbled.

> If they couldn't do anything that gave an appearance of a conflict This time I won't say maybe - that's a straw man. I never said Cantor shouldn't be able to do anything that even gives the appearance of a conflict. Or anything even close to that really. As you said yourself further up the thread, investments of investment bank employees are highly regulated. And not only employees themselves, but also their immedi…

You are just out of your depth in this area. You don't understand what Cantor has done here, you don't understand what Howard can or cannot do in his role.

Howard Lutnick's positions have been directly opposite of what Cantor has bet will happen. Cantor has 10 or 12 thousand employees and is constantly doing all manner of things. Howard has no power over the supreme court. His son is the chairman, he's miles away from being in the weeds on what specific things they do. He isn't going to be comped like crazy as the chairman.

There is no conflict. There is only the appearance of one and it only appears that way to people who don't understand the situation.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#654

Post by hcknwscommenter »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #641
trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

No, Trump manufactured negotiating leverage out of thin air— nothing, really. He extracted concessions on something like a bluff. Plus, didn’t he also extract a budget that in retrospect wasn’t appropriate had the tariff revenue been removed?

The budget wasn't appropriate regardless of tariffs. And OP's point is that 130B is a tiny number that no where near makes up for the loss in tax revenue from the very very stupid "OBBB".

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#655

Post by SlightlyLeftPad »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

That $130B will pay for 4 months of the Iran war with a current run rate of $1B per day.

We’re definitely not going to get even a reduction in healthcare costs any time soon.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#656

Post by gmd63 »

This is just the citizenry paying double tariffs. First, we bought the higher priced goods. Now, the companies are trying to take our tariff payments again, this time from the government, to "make up" for the tariff money that we had already paid them in the first place.

What should happen is that $X of the budget should be put into escrow for the next administration to use after these criminals make their way out.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#657

Post by thrance »

gmd63 wrote: post #656

This is just the citizenry paying double tariffs. First, we bought the higher priced goods. Now, the companies are trying to take our tariff payments again, this time from the government, to "make up" for the tariff money that we had already paid them in the first place. What should happen is that $X of the budget should be put into escrow for the next administration to use after these criminals make their way out.

Too bad the next guys will also be completely owned by capital.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#658

Post by belter »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

[dead]

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#659

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

Hedging in case Argentina might need another bailout.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#660

Post by collinmcnulty »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #645
epolanski wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tariffs almost never make sense, unless it's an industry that's super important for your own survival. Capitalism is about efficiency, and eventually there are going countries where producing certain items will always be more efficient. East asian countries have spent decades innovating and investing in their manufacturing capabilities. Also, one thing that grinds my nerves are the narratives of trade balances that o…

It's not that it's conveniently ignored. It's that a services economy, while lucrative in the good times, leaves you lacking self sufficiency and resilience. We should never have let manufacturing leave to the extent that we did, all in the name of efficiency over all else. Of course it goes without saying that launching an absurdist comedy interpretation of a global trade war is not the way to fix the problem.

I don’t have a source for this handy, but I believe that in terms of goods produced, manufacturing is actually still alive and well in the US. It’s just that this is done by a much smaller and more automated workforce.
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