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OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

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Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#651

Post by ChadNauseam »

unfunco wrote: post #525
ChadNauseam wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They specifically said they never agreed to let the DoD use anthropic for fully autonomous weapons. They said "Two such use cases have never been included in our contracts with the Department of War, and we believe they should not be included now: Mass domestic surveillance [...] Fully autonomous weapons" Their rational was pragmatic. But they specifically said that they didn't agree to let the DoD create fully autom…

Dario said in an interview with CBS that they're not against fully autonomous weapons but their technology is there yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPTNHrq_4LU&t=17m47s

Not sure how that's relevant. I never said Dario was taking an ethical stand. I said they did not agree for Claude to be used for fully autonomous weapons. Now, compare that to OpenAI, whose agreement does allow fully autonomous weapons.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#652

Post by nawgz »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #603
xphos wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this is not actually true and the statement justifies and vindicates those that do sell out by saying of course anyone would. There are countless marytr for religion, politics, and other things. A better way is to say you can always find a cheap sellout at least than the morally dammed cannot claim equality of belief

You mean like all of the religious leaders who are actively supporting a defending a three time married adulterer? You’ll have to excuse my skepticism of the morality of “the moral majority”.

Religion is and always has been about control… it strikes me as exceedingly naive to be surprised the church is backing a pedophile, have you literally ever read any history of any kind?

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#653

Post by jacquesm »

tedsanders wrote: post #220
Imnimo wrote: post #16

I don't see how OpenAI employees who have signed the We Will Not Be Divided letter can continue their employment there in light of this. Surely if OpenAI had insisted upon the same things that Anthropic had, the government would not have signed this agreement. The only plausible explanation is that there is an understanding that OpenAI will not, in practice, enforce the red lines.

I'm an OpenAI employee and I'll go out on a limb with a public comment. I agree AI shouldn't be used for mass surveillance or autonomous weapons. I also think Anthropic has been treated terribly and has acted admirably. My understanding is that the OpenAI deal disallows domestic mass surveillance and autonomous weapons, and that OpenAI is asking for the same terms for other AI companies (so that we can continue compe…

> I don't see why I should quit.

So, can you please draw the line when you will quit?

- If OpenAI deal allows domestic mass surveillance - If OpenAI allows the development of autonomous weapons - OpenAI no longer asks for the same terms for other AI companies

Correct?

If so, then if I take your words at face value:

- By your reading non-domestic mass surveillance is fine

- The development of AI based weapons is fine as long as there is one human element in there, even if it could be disabled and then the weapon would work without humans involved

- The day that OpenAI asks for the same terms for other AI companies and if those terms are not granted then that's also fine, because after all, they did ask.

I have become extremely skeptical when seeing people whose livelihood depends on a particular legal entity come out with precise wording around what does and does not constitute their red line but I find it fascinating nonetheless so if you could humor me and clarify I'd be most obliged.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#654

Post by jacquesm »

duzer65657 wrote: post #646
the_real_cher wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world needs a nuclear war to just eliminate 99% of human life and just start over.

but you're part of the 1%, right?

Either that or a cockroach.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#655

Post by xiphias2 »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #535
tintor wrote: post #229

Difference from Anthropic's deal is: - OpenAI is ok with use of their AI for autonomous weapons, as long as there is "human responsibility" - Anthropic is not ok with use of their AI for autonomous weapons

I think you guys are giving far too much attention to the "autonomous weapons" angle and not enough to the "spying on Americans" angle. It makes no sense to use an LLM to power an autonomous weapon. It does make a lot of sense to use an LLM to monitor communications and public social media profiles to create a list of "domestic terrorists" that they can then target. I'm willing to bet this is what the administration…

Sure, and actually the open models are already good enough to do that, it's not like any company could stop any organization that can collect the data from doing this.

They can just improve on it a lot.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#656

Post by throwaway2037 »

cheonn638 wrote: post #391
the_real_cher wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, for that check theyll be building the autonomous robots themselves, saying "theyre food delivery robots, thats not a gun that a drink dispenser!"

> theyre food delivery robots, thats not a gun that a drink dispenser!" You underestimate how many top AI scientists are perfectly okay with building autonomous weapons systems and are not ashamed of it. Me, and 99% of HN readers, will gladly pull the trigger to release a missile from a drone if we are paid even just US$1,000,000/year. Now note that many L7+ at OpenAI are making $10 million+ per year.

    > Me, and 99% of HN readers, will gladly pull the trigger to release a missile from a drone if we are paid even just US$1,000,000/year.
I will respond with a personal, related story. I was living in Hongkong when "democracy fell" in the late 2010s / early 2020s. It was depressing, and I wanted to leave. (I did later.) I was trying to explain to my parents (and relatives) why most highly skilled foreign workers just didn't care. I said: "Imagine you told a bunch of people in 1984 that they could move to Moscow to open a local office for a wealthy international corporation and get paid big money, like 500K+ in today's dollars. Fat expat package is included. How many people would take it? Most."

Another point completely unrelated to my previous story: Since the advent of pretty good LLMs starting in 2023, when I watch flims with warfare set in the future, it makes absolutely no sense that soldiers are still manually aiming. I'm not saying it will be like Terminator 2 right away, but surely the 19-22 year old operator will just point the weapon in the general direction of the target, then AI will handle the rest. And yet, we still see people manually aiming and shooting in these scenarios. Am I the only one who cringes when I see this? There is something uncanney valley about it, like seeing a character in a film using a flip phone post-2015! Maybe directors don't want to show us the ugly truth of the future of warfare.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#657

Post by jacquesm »

onion2k wrote: post #560
readitalready wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an OpenAI employee, quitting wouldn't be a problem, as you have a much higher chance of being successful after quitting than anyone else. You could go to any VC and they would fund you.

This isn't even close to true. VCs aren't silly, and it's not the 2010-2015 days of free money any more. Having a big company on your resume is not enough to land your seed round. You need a product, traction, and real money revenue in most cases.

Oh no, principles with a price... what will they think of next. Obviously principles only matter when there is a price attached.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#658

Post by qudat »

matsemann wrote: post #262
davidw wrote: post #40

We need some kind of group like "tech people with morals". I'm done with these people and their corruption and garbage.

It's why I think "software engineer" is a misnomer. We don't have a license, we don't have an ethics code, we don't sign off on stuff. In other disciplines, an engineer could topple a project they feel is unsafe or against code, and be backed by their union if replaced. A software engineer just says yes if their stocks aren't vested, and will be replaced if not.

I just looked this up so might not be fully accurate but it seems most private sector “engineers” don’t require a license. You only need a PE license when providing a service to the public. That is quite a strict band on the title.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#659

Post by DharmaPolice »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #656
cheonn638 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> theyre food delivery robots, thats not a gun that a drink dispenser!" You underestimate how many top AI scientists are perfectly okay with building autonomous weapons systems and are not ashamed of it. Me, and 99% of HN readers, will gladly pull the trigger to release a missile from a drone if we are paid even just US$1,000,000/year. Now note that many L7+ at OpenAI are making $10 million+ per year.

> Me, and 99% of HN readers, will gladly pull the trigger to release a missile from a drone if we are paid even just US$1,000,000/year. I will respond with a personal, related story. I was living in Hongkong when "democracy fell" in the late 2010s / early 2020s. It was depressing, and I wanted to leave. (I did later.) I was trying to explain to my parents (and relatives) why most highly skilled foreign workers just d…

I don't cringe because it's for dramatic/narrative effect. It's the same reason the crew of the Enterprise regularly beam into dangerous locations rather than sending a semi-autonomous drone. Or that despite having intelligent machines their operations are often very manual, as it is on many science fiction shows. The audience (if they think about it) realises this is not realistic and understands that the vast majority of our exploration would be done by unmanned/automated vessels. But that wouldn't be very interesting.

Other universes take it further - Warhammer 40k often features combatants fighting with melee weapons. Rule of cool and all that.

Re: OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network

#660

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

nawgz wrote: post #652
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like all of the religious leaders who are actively supporting a defending a three time married adulterer? You’ll have to excuse my skepticism of the morality of “the moral majority”.

Religion is and always has been about control… it strikes me as exceedingly naive to be surprised the church is backing a pedophile, have you literally ever read any history of any kind?

I am the last person to be surprised at the corruption of any large organization.
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