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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#651

Post by int_19h »

shevy-java wrote: post #360
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

It's especially annoying that democracies do that. Give it a few years and suddenly China is no longer worse than democracies. Modi and his clique are authoritarian though. It's interesting that so many indian vote for that clique. They seem to not understand the problem domain; similar to Hungary, too. (Don't even get me going on Trump's clique of superrich running the show. I recently watched CNN in the last days a…

Putin was originally elected by a genuine supermajority as well.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#652

Post by charcircuit »

komali2 wrote: post #327
charcircuit wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to break the law is never a good thing. Immigration agencies can still fight whatever after people have been kicked out as has been decided. Government inefficiency should never be celebrated.

> Immigration agencies can still fight whatever after people have been kicked out as has been decided. Given that dragnet operations result in all sorts of random people being deported, including citizens, and given that sometimes these people are deported to countries where they face violence or death, you are arguing for state-sponsored violence without due process. Other than people immigrating, what other circums…

People should not be hiding in our country to escape death. If someone was willing to break the law that heavily, they should be deported and faced judgements as soon as possible as those are the people we should be removing from society as fast as possible.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#653

Post by int_19h »

rramadass wrote: post #352
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

> I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom. Silly goose. "Freedom" is always balanced against "Responsibility" (both Individual and Group); it can never be absolute. The latter needs State support. That is the reason my "freedom" to rob you is curtailed by the "State's (i.e. Group's) responsibility" enacting laws to prevent it. You also exercise "your (i.e. Individual) responsibility" when…

The state is not the group. It loves to pretend that it is, but the group it actually represents is far smaller than the group it rules.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#654

Post by dragonwriter »

pessimizer wrote: post #620
Y_Y wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but I inferred the meaning of "something racist [in the judgement of the authorities]".

Racists deserve free speech, and our society is better for it. When racists are silenced, anti-racists become complacent, stupid, and ironically, racist because they lose the ability to recognize racism. Defend everyone's free speech. Don't require the necessity of unfair accusations. The destruction of people's lives over unfair accusations is simply a failure of due process and the desire of people to join a mob fo…

> Racists deserve free speech, and our society is better for it.

To the extent that our society is better for extending free speech to racists it has nothing to do with them deserving anything, but with the costs of empowering any fallible human institution to deny anyone things that that particular group of people do not deserve, and the cost of failing to make that distinction is being susceptible to being convinced that some other group truly does not deserve it and therefore some institution should be empowered to identify members of that group and deny it to them.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#655

Post by AndrewKemendo »

dvdkon wrote: post #474
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many ways can you slice a cake? The point is that the more identifiable information that the monopoly on violence has the easier it is for something, anything really, to be used against you should your tribal affiliation conflict with the ruling party. This is like politics 101

At least where I live, there's no extra information being gathered. The only difference is that I no longer have to physically go somewhere to deal with that information, because I can sign in to government services online. Information that was previously in paper form and scattered across various bureaus is now being digitised and centralised, but that's orthogonal to "digital ID"!

Centralized consolidation of PII IS THE RISK

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#656

Post by nephihaha »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #639
gclawes wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really that a digital ID can be used to spy on people (governments can already do this to a pretty large degree without needing spyware). It's that it's a permission system that can be instantly updated and centrally managed by people that have legal authority to spy on you. If your digital ID is controlled centrally by the government (the guys that are watching most things you do already), and you need your…

> If your digital ID is controlled centrally by the government (the guys that are watching most things you do already), and you need your digital ID to do most commercial interactions (banking, buying things, travel, etc), it means the government can revoke your ability to do any of those commercial interactions (or even other things that aren't strictly commercial, think "travel papers" for driving out of state). Th…

The USA will probably get a lite version. The PRC already has the most severe version. The EU will introduce something severe and pretend otherwise. (And the UK will copy them while pretending not to.)

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#657

Post by mikkupikku »

mcdonje wrote: post #638
pessimizer wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in a free country you have the right to be a climate skeptic and a racist? Being a racist is mostly useless and self-serving, but if you make any particular scientific position illegal, it's identical to having state defined science. That's how we got people passing bills to define pi and Lysenkoism. It's how we institutionalized chattel slavery and sometimes teaching black people to read punishable by death.…

You're kinda missing the point. It's quite common for "free speech absolutists" to defend racism and other forms of bigotry, but not much else.

It is the most unpopular speech which is at the greatest risk of being censored, and so there is it also the best place to hold the line on free speech. If you don't defend the right to say racist things, then you've already conceded the fight for free speech and are now just negotiating your surrender.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#658

Post by matt_heimer »

DeepSeaTortoise wrote: post #196
satvikpendem wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sadly how the culture is in India. I wish it improved to be more like Japan or China but I'm not sure how one can solve this sort of issue.

Require all people who received higher education to work for their country first for 15 to 20 years. There's no point in being able to buy an outrageously fancy toilet with remittances if there's no sewer to hook it up to.

That would discourage higher education, you are basically punishing people for it.

Try giving free education to all government employees instead.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#659

Post by nephihaha »

sofixa wrote: post #648
pessimizer wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racists deserve free speech, and our society is better for it. When racists are silenced, anti-racists become complacent, stupid, and ironically, racist because they lose the ability to recognize racism. Defend everyone's free speech. Don't require the necessity of unfair accusations. The destruction of people's lives over unfair accusations is simply a failure of due process and the desire of people to join a mob fo…

> Racists deserve free speech, and our society is better for it The individual victims of racist speech would strongly disagree with that.

There are a lot of definitions of what that entails. Some people have landed in hot water for making comments about what's happened in Gaza and accused of that.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#660

Post by nephihaha »

mcdonje wrote: post #638
pessimizer wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in a free country you have the right to be a climate skeptic and a racist? Being a racist is mostly useless and self-serving, but if you make any particular scientific position illegal, it's identical to having state defined science. That's how we got people passing bills to define pi and Lysenkoism. It's how we institutionalized chattel slavery and sometimes teaching black people to read punishable by death.…

You're kinda missing the point. It's quite common for "free speech absolutists" to defend racism and other forms of bigotry, but not much else.

The problem is in the definition. The British Government has accused Pro-Palestine protestors of it in the last few months.
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