Live data from Hacker News

Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

cnbc.com

651–660 of 663 posts

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#651
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search engines have been good at answering those kinds of questions for the last decade. SEO spam often answers simple questions like that.

You can find the answer this way if the query is simple enough, but in general, if you are asking for something specific or trying to retrieve a piece of information based on keywords it's not usually indexed by, AI will do better. For example, "how are large concrete piers supporting a roadway constructed on a 45 degree slope?" Claude gave me an answer immediately, most Google results for my first two queries weren'…

>Claude gave me an answer immediately

yes, but was it a good answer? were any sources backing up the answer credible (or even present)?

I don't know why we are suddenly so confortable trading speed for accuracy. Rule 0 of optiization involves making sure the probalem is actually being solved.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gemini frequently just straight up lies to me I'm pretty sure they meant LLMs in general, not just ChatGPT. They all straight up lie to very similar degrees, no contest there. > The only people who are being homogenized or "down-graded" by Chat GPT are people who wouldn't have sought other sophisticated strategies in the first place, and those who understand that Chat GPT is a tool and understand how it works, and…

If you are talking about an adult I don't believe you lol And if it is true... it is not a common experience and would have external factors contributing to this behavior. Additionally, using IQ to qualify someone's intelligence is a signal, so I'll just not go into it deeper since we will disagree as I find your anecdote juvenile, straight up exaggeration, or a complete lie to serve your opinion. Plausibly this coul…

I didn't say it was common, I said it's possible because I've seen it with my own eyes. He's over 30, I've known him for over 15 years and we've occasionally collaborated on software projects.

I have a really good idea of his "abilities" and we've been in contact regularly all these years which is why I can pinpoint when this all started. I even talked to a few of our common friends about it because I'm worried about his well-being and they agreed that there's been a pretty dramatic shift in his abilities and demeanour.

> using IQ to qualify someone's intelligence is a signal

You're way off base. Believe me I know that IQ as such isn't a great way of measuring and especially comparing intelligence between cultures, but I was comparing him against himself.

In other words, he used to be really smart and had above-average critical thinking skills. Now he's seemingly incapable of critically engaging with new technical ideas or reason about their implications. He just refuses to engage with anything that is mentally demanding.

> I'm not trying to be rude [...] and I'm old enough

You should probably put more effort into the "trying not to" part. Your entire response is "straight up" a rude dismissal accusing me of being a "juvenile" "TikTok" liar at every step, "lol".

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you “vet” something technical and something that you can’t even do yourself is beyond me. Vetting things is very likely harder than doing the thing correctly. Especially the thing you are vetting is designed to look correct more than actually being correct. You can picture a physics class where teacher gives a trick problem/solution and 95% of class doesn’t realize until the teacher walks back and explains it.

Hey, just replied to a sibling comment of yours that sort of addresses your commentary. Just in case you didn't read it because I didn't reply to you directly. One thing that reply didn't cover and I'll add here: I disagree that the LLM is actually designed to look correct more than it's trying to actually be correct. I might have a blind spot, but I don't think that is a logical conclusion about LLM's, but if you ha…

> designed to look correct more than it's trying to actually be correct

This might not quite be true, strictly speaking, but a very similar statement definitely is. LLMs are highly prone to hallucinations, a term you've probably heard a lot in this context. One reason for this is that they are trained to predict the next word in a sequence. In this game, it's almost always better to guess than to output 'I'm not sure,' when you might be wrong. LLMs therefore don't really build up a model of the limits of their own 'knowledge,' they just guess until their guesses get better.

These hallucinations are often hard to catch, in part because the LLM will sound confident regardless of whether it is hallucinating or not. It's this tendency that makes me nervous about your use case. I asked an LLM about world energy consumption recently, and when it couldn't find an answer online in the units I asked for, it just gave a number from a website and changed (not converted) the units. I almost missed it, because the source website had the number!

Stepping back, I actually agree that you can learn new things like this from LLMs, but you either need to be able to verify the output or the stakes need to be low enough that it doesn't matter if you can't. In this case, even if you can verify the math, can you be sure that it's doing the right calculation in the right way? Did it point out the common mistakes that beginners make? Did it notice that you're attaching the support beam incorrectly?

Chances are, you've built everything correctly and it will be fine. But the chances of a mistake are clearly much higher than if you talked to an experienced human (professional or otherwise).

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#654
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome caught up in the last year or so, but also speedometer is also fairly arbitrary. Open/close, tab open/close, tab switch, scroll, initial load, resizing all still far better. Actual app performance depends on the app but for a few years Safari was clearly better.

So your source is your personal opinion. Got it.

100% objective, in fact among better web developers this has been common knowledge. There were plenty of articles, side by sides and benchmarks over the last years showing it.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#656
post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>free speech for example, though this is now failing I don't quite understand what you mean. The great advantage of the American constitution in terms of freedom of speech is that it sets a relatively clear boundary. And it is obvious that in this regard the constitution copes with its task perfectly: freedom of speech in the USA is currently protected better than in any other country. It is so well protected that Am…

> freedom of speech in the USA is currently protected better than in any other country. I don't know every country so I'm not sure if this is true, but it seems to me free speech was decently well protected up to a certain point and so long as you didn't threaten American hegemony. For example there was a long era where you were able to be jailed for being a communist or speaking out against American wars. Or often s…

> Americans seem to enjoy decent free speech but only so long as it doesn't meaningfully challenge the government

Trump's election was such a challenge. As we can see, the government failed to restrict freedom of speech.

> Recently the Americans' free speech rights seem to be degrading even further with media being ejected from the press room or sued by the president.

But it always happened. Moreover, media being ejected from the press room is not violation of the free speech, and there have been fewer court cases against the press from the government recently. I'm not saying that free speech in the US is absolute. Just that it is better protected than anywhere else and that it works effectively in the areas where it matters most.

> Other countries elect unpopular politicians, that's not really unique.

But we are talking about exactly the opposite: the election of popular politicians who are opposed by the current government. And this is quite unique.

In Europe, in such cases, such politicians are silenced, imprisoned, banned from running, killed, or results of elections are simply cancelled if people voted incorrectly. And in the rest of the world, the situation generally is even worse than in Europe.

> first person I've met to openly defend corruption, or the American word for it, lobbying.

Lobbying occurs everywhere and it cannot not occur. Even in the most totalitarian and communist societies, the most bloodthirsty dictators do not live in a vacuum and are subject to the influence of various isolated groups. So the attempt to separate lobbying from corruption is primarily aimed at reducing this very corruption.

> argue that money shouldn't be able to influence politics.

This is an impossible situation. Or rather, it is possible, but it implies totalitarian powers of the government. Because politics is by definition influenced by everything, and money is by definition a measure of things that influences everything. And the only option when money will not influence politics is when the government has the power to directly manage capital. In any other case, money influences politics.

So neoliberals who believe that money should not influence politics are stupid prototalitarian pigs, no matter what else they say.

> The PRC for a while had virtually 0 influence of capital against their government

But that's not true at all. At the time when capital in China had no influence on politics - literally millions of people died of hunger there. And later, the Chinese government gave capital unlimited power over some areas of public activity.

> The EU seems to often act against the interests of capital

There is no common interests of capital. Each individual capital has its own interests, usually consisting of eliminating all competitors and becoming a socialist government with a monopoly over all spheres of public activity. And if we look at Europe - without a doubt, this is exactly what is happening there.

> So it seems to me that Nazi Germany, Russia, USSR, North Korea are more political failures than economic ones.

This is exactly what I'm talking about: giving the government such enormous powers to influence all elements of the economy makes it completely unaccountable. Which is certainly a political failure.

> it was hardly a failure until it dissolved

I think here you are already starting to substitute concepts. What do you mean by failure? Soviet industrialization is a propaganda myth, the pre-revolutionary standard of living was achieved only in the 60s, tens of millions of victims of famine, millions of political executions. What do you mean by not a failure? Lack of accountability of government to the public? But then North Korea is a huge success, but you call it a failure.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has gotten absolutely out of control. I will be reading an article about a new game, and the article won't even have a link to the store page to buy the game...

Which store page should they be linking to? Inevitably what you’re asking for is how we’ve ended up with sites spinning off thousands of articles stuffed full of affiliate links.

Just link to a few? There's a finite set of stores a game is usually on

On PC, it'll be Steam, GOG, maybe Humble. Then on consoles you have Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo. If you wanna put affiliate link, go for it. It's better than no link at all.

These articles already bait my click for ads by never putting the name of the game in the title anyways. At least let me get to the game and buy it.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#658
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can find the answer this way if the query is simple enough, but in general, if you are asking for something specific or trying to retrieve a piece of information based on keywords it's not usually indexed by, AI will do better. For example, "how are large concrete piers supporting a roadway constructed on a 45 degree slope?" Claude gave me an answer immediately, most Google results for my first two queries weren'…

>Claude gave me an answer immediately yes, but was it a good answer? were any sources backing up the answer credible (or even present)? I don't know why we are suddenly so confortable trading speed for accuracy. Rule 0 of optiization involves making sure the probalem is actually being solved.

I'm not a highway engineer. I only care that the broad strokes are correct because I'm satisfying casual curiosity.

> I don't know why we are suddenly so confortable trading speed for accuracy.

Googling something or looking it up on Wikipedia is already trading speed for accuracy because you'll be reading a summary/reinterpretation. If I really cared about accuracy, I'd be reading highway design and civil engineering journals.

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#659

By the way, a pet peeve of mine right now is that reporters covering court cases (and we have so many of public interest lately) never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read, right in the story. (and another user here kindly did that for us below: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.223... ) It seems such a simple step (they must have been using the rul…

> By the way, a pet peeve of mine right now is that reporters covering court cases never seem to simply paste the link to the online PDF decision/ruling for us all to read right in the story. I presume that this falls under the same consideration as direct links to science papers in articles that are covering those releases. Far as I can tell, the central tactic for lowering bounce rate and increasing 'engagement' is…

When it comes to providing direct links to PDFs of scientific papers, you can often run into paywall issues. Court decisions / rulings on the other hand do not belong to any publishers, so it's a different story

Re: Google can keep its Chrome browser but will be barred from exclusive contracts

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are losing braincells relying almost entirely on ChatGPT.

Sure you could end up with occasional misinformation, but the speed at which you can get information more than makes up for it. Niche topics that would otherwise take hours or days to pull together and summar ise obscure sources takes minutes with LLMs.

I mean, yeah, if you don't particularly care whether the information you're getting has any grounding in reality.
Post reply on HN