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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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651–660 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is plenty of Israeli officials like smotrich bengvir and other invoking Amalek doctrine. Also Israel officialy had "mowing the lawn" doctrine that is literal genocide https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2025.2...

I'm really not so much interested in litigating the broader conflict; just, this is a factoid that gets brought into these threads, and it's worth knowing the quote people are referring to was mischaracterized.

“There are many other quotes either similar meaning and intent, but you got the intent of this one quote wrong” is not… something I’d feel the need to point out to people.

“Technically correct, the worst kind of correct”.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#652
post #191

Israeli public figures call for ‘crippling sanctions’ on Israel over Gaza starvation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/letter-sanctio...

It's important to note that a big part of Israeli society opposes the JahuNatan government, the illegal settlers and war crimes in Gaza. Even after the Hamas attack on Kibbutzim near Gaza in '23. Quite important not to become part of the problem when you discuss this case. And the problem is that such a heated subject is prone to make people ideologically possessed and tribal. To a point where they become emotionally…

It's interesting to contrast comments like this in this thread, with the amount of hatred and abuse heaped upon Russians on the day of Russia's invasion - not just the Russian state, but a big chunk of comments that made it clear that they held all Russians responsible for it and would like to see their lives destroyed. And had relatively little pushback against them.

I agree with the sentiment of your second paragraph, but I wish that thought applied in general, and not just to some special case countries. Especially considering the widely differing levels of democratic power people have in these different countries.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#653
post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

So who will be in power? You've got to remember that Hamas was democratically elected back in 2006, and its main rival Fatah isn't exactly pro-Israel either. Given the circumstances, I don't think there could possibly be a democratically elected government in Gaza which is pro-Israel or even neutral-Israel. Your only option is a puppet dictatorship government installed by Israel - but that's not really going to impro…

> , I don't think the average French citizen in 2025 loses any sleep over it. If they can live with the risk, why does Israel require absolutes?

No, we do not lose sleep about that. We have also been at war with England, Italy and Spain a lot. Especially England. We keep a close eye on them still that the Hastings battle is not forgotten.

But on the serious side, these concerns are so remote compared with the situation in Israel and Palestine. We do not have any territory claims with Germany. They have their land, we have ours. If you ask a random person in France about territoires we should get back, they would be really confused. The ones historically inclined would consider the 7th and 8th century and Charlemagne's lands.

I guess that this topic in the mind of Israelis and Palestinians is much, much more prevalent.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this was a misquote, but it sounds juicy so it will never stop being passed around on the Internet. Netanyahu cited a completely different verse of the Torah, which was then mischaracterized.

The verse Netanyahu quoted said to blot out even the memory of the Amaleks, after comparing Gazans to Amaleks. How is this a misquoted? This is the verse he cited, although the other verse you mentioned is just as bloodthirsty.

Yair Rosenberg explains it well here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/is...

In particular, the quote is apposite given the attack Israel had suffered just 2 weeks prior.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not so much interested in litigating the broader conflict; just, this is a factoid that gets brought into these threads, and it's worth knowing the quote people are referring to was mischaracterized.

“There are many other quotes either similar meaning and intent, but you got the intent of this one quote wrong” is not… something I’d feel the need to point out to people. “Technically correct, the worst kind of correct”.

The claim being made is the Netanyahu himself expressed coded genocidal intent, by citing a passage from the Book of Samuel in which God commands King Saul to kill every member of Amalek. But he's quoting an entirely different passage, unrelated to the Book of Samuel, about a surprise attack.

It's not a technical distinction. People should stop bringing up the Amalek thing. Virtually everyone who cites it has no idea what it's a reference to. Given the gravity of everything that has happened since 2023, it's a pointless diversion. Any argument you want to make, you can make without this.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#656
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that a big part of Israeli society opposes the JahuNatan government, the illegal settlers and war crimes in Gaza. Even after the Hamas attack on Kibbutzim near Gaza in '23. Quite important not to become part of the problem when you discuss this case. And the problem is that such a heated subject is prone to make people ideologically possessed and tribal. To a point where they become emotionally…

Netanyahu is the longest serving Israeli prime minister in history serving a combined 17 years. And he is tipped to win again next election. He very much embodies the will of the Israeli public. If you listen to their “liberal opposition” leaders like the likes of Yair Lapid and Benny Gantz they sound just as unhinged as Netanyahu himself [1] Every poll conducted on Israeli public opinion on the conflict would make h…

Except that's not the case at all. That one poll is extremely dodgy. Here's are other polls:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-70-of-israelis-support-se... https://en.idi.org.il/articles/58648 https://en.idi.org.il/articles/59019 https://en.idi.org.il/articles/59940 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/art... https://www.inss.org.il/publication/survey-april-2025/

But I'm pretty sure you are only interested in sources that confirm what you already believe.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#657
post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote the NYTimes: “Despite the desperate humanitarian crisis, a survey conducted in May by the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University found that 64.5 percent of the Israeli public was not at all, or not very, concerned about the humanitarian situation in Gaza.” “About three-quarters of Israeli Jews thought that Israel's military planning should not take into account the suffering of the Pa…

That is horrific and much worse than I thought it was.

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews were kicked out of all the Arab nations they lived in, were persecuted in Europe, and you think that they shouldn’t get a sovereign country for themselves? Should the Kurds get one? Tibetans? Catalonias? Scottish?

>and you think that they shouldn’t get a sovereign country for themselves? That's a really easy question: no. Plenty of people don't have sovereign countries for themselves. Some of them persecuted, some of them integrated by force into other countries. Countries are not owed. They simply are. Tibet is being wholly integrated and controlled by China. Catalonia is somewhat asking for it, native americans are being rel…

Countries are not owed, they are either won, or given, in every instance of every county in history. Which is exactly how Israel came to be.

No one is questioning the existence of Bulgaria as a separate entity from turkey, when they declared independence after the Russo Turkish war.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ethnonationalist definition is inherently subjective and thus inherently fuzzy. It’s an exercise that derives from a time when some thought one could scientifically classify races.

My point was that AFAIK, Palestinians would include Jews in the potential citizens of a Palestine. So that the conflict is not between two ethnonationalist groups. There certainly is rhetoric around the ethnic origin of some Israeli citizens being Northern European rather than middle eastern, so perhaps the original claim has some validity.

I guess I meant it as more of a longer term solution.

In that, given a few years/decades of a two state solution, you'd have a partition occur, whether by force as was in India/Pakistan, or by more natural processes over time.

Honestly, I could see a partition occur as a condition for a two state solution. One side for the muslims, one for the jews.

I guess I should amend my comment to say theocratic ethno-nationalist / ethno-religious states, but I am likely messing up my greek/Plato (?) here. Suffice to say, the state of Palestine would have a super majority of muslim Palestinian citizen voters (currently-ish 87%, ~6M people total, though hard to define really), and the state of Israel would have a slight majority of jewish citizen voters (currently 48% jewish, 48% arab, ~14M people total, but Israeli Arab enfranchisement is a thing). Though 'steady state' numbers would likely shift the voting blocs towards the representative religions due to some partitioning as I described. Just FYI, there are about 6.3M jews and 4.5M muslims in the US currently.

The total numbers of jews and palestinians that would be 'in theatre' is hard to determine, but think about 8M jews and about 9M palestinians for guestimations.

So, I think I'm on pretty stable ground calling the likely resultant two state solution an ethno-religious solution. Other commenters are right in that the definition of 'nation' is a bit difficult with these two groups.

Look either way, the two state solution is like, maximally bad. Having these two people with their histories and hatreds literally sharing walls is just crazy as it stands. Then giving them both access to the global arms market, let alone just Israel, is so crazy.

And no, I haven't the foggiest idea what the hell to do. No one does.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#660
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is what I wanted to know: "‘If you feed Gazans, they eventually eat you,’ the Israeli stand-up comedian Gil Kopatz posted. ‘It’s not genocide, it’s pesticide.’ According to a survey commissioned by Penn State, more than 80 per cent of Israeli Jews now support the expulsion of Gazans. Compassion for Palestinians is taboo except among a fringe of radical activists. When Ayman Odeh, a Palestinian member…

> "‘If you feed Gazans, they eventually eat you,’ the Israeli stand-up comedian Gil Kopatz posted. ‘It’s not genocide, it’s pesticide.’ I have such a hard time understanding how such statements can find an accepting audience in this day and age; in Israel of all places. Replace "Israeli stand-up comedian" with "some Nazi propagandist in the 30s/40s" and "Gazans" with "Jews", and I'm sure it would be a perfectly accur…

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