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Study mode

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Re: Study mode

#651

Post by johnnyanmac »

sen wrote: post #359
lbrito wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>big chunk of time spent studying is actually just searching. This is a good thing in many levels. Learning how to search is (was) a good skill to have. The process of searching itself also often leads to learning tangentially related but important things. I'm sorry for the next generations that won't have (much of) these skills.

That was relevant when you were learning to search through “information” for the answer to your question, eg the digital version of going through the library or digging through a reference book. I don’t think it’s so valuable now that you’re searching through piles of spam and junk just to try find anything relevant. That’s a uniquely modern-web thing created by Google in their focus of profit over user. Unless Googl…

>I don’t think it’s so valuable now that you’re searching through piles of spam and junk just to try find anything relevant.

my 20 years of figuring out how to find niche porn has paid off in spades, thank you very much. I click recklessly in that domain and I end up with viruses. Very high stakes research.

I think properly searching is more important than ever in such a day and age of enshittification. You need to quickly recognize what is adspam or blogspam and distill out useful/valuable information. You need to understand how to preview links before you click on them. What tools to filter out dangerous websites. What methods and keywords to trust or be wary of.

And all that is before the actual critical thinking of "is this information accurate/trustworthy?".

Of course, I'm assuming this is a future where you aren't stuck in the search spaces of 20 website hubs who pull from the same 5 AI databases to spit out dubious answers at you. I'd rather not outsource my thinking (and media consumption) in such a way.

Re: Study mode

#652

Post by digital_voodoo »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #602
zvmaz wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fear of asking stupid questions is real, especially if one has had a bad experience with humiliating teachers or professors. I just recently saw a video of a professor subtly shaming and humiliating his students for answering questions to his own online quiz. He teaches at a prestigious institution and has a book that has a very good reputation. I stopped watching his video lectures.

So instead of correcting the teachers with better training, we retreat from education and give it to technocrats? Why are we so afraid of punishing bad, unproductive, and even illegal behavior in 2025?

At a system level, this totally makes sense. But as an individual learner, what would be my motivation to do so, when I can "just" actually learn my subject and move on?

Re: Study mode

#653

Post by fny »

mpalmer wrote: post #509
Workaccount2 wrote: post #65

An acquaintance of mine has a start-up in this space and uses OpenAI to do essentially the same thing. This must look like, and may well be, the guillotine for him... It's my primary fear building anything on these models, they can just come eat your lunch once it looks yummy enough. Tread carefully

No disrespect to your acquaintance, but when I heard about this, I didn't think "oh a lot of startups are gonna go under", I thought "OAI added an option to use a hard-coded system prompt and they're calling it a 'mode'??"

This is step 1. Like they say in the post, they will learn from the data.

Re: Study mode

#654

Post by raxxorraxor »

jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

I am just surprised they used an example requiring calculation/math. In the field the results are very much mixed. Otherwise it of course is a big help.

Knowing myself it perhaps wasn't that bad that I didn't have such tools, depends on the topic. I couldn't imagine ever writing a thesis without an LLM anymore.

Re: Study mode

#655

Post by VMG »

friendzis wrote: post #627
filoleg wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are you supposed to spot errors if you don't know the material? By noticing that something is not adding up at a certain point. If you rely on an incorrect answer, further material will clash with it eventually one way or another in a lot of areas, as things are typically built one on top of another (assuming we are talking more about math/cs/sciences/music theory/etc., and not something like history). At that…

It absolutely does not work that way. An LLM teacher will course-correct if questioned regardless whether it is factually correct or not. An LLM, by design, does not, in any capacity whatsoever have a concept of factual correctness.

I just tried this

> Me: why is madrid the capital of france?

> ChatGPT: It's not. Madrid is the capital of Spain. The capital of France is Paris.

Re: Study mode

#656

Post by Wilder7977 »

romaniitedomum wrote: post #412
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. This is leaps and bounds ahead of that experience. But now, you're wondering if the answer the AI gave you is correct or something it hallucinated. Every time I find myself putting…

Lets not forget also the ecological impact and energy consumption.

Re: Study mode

#657

Post by ubercow13 »

friendzis wrote: post #627
filoleg wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are you supposed to spot errors if you don't know the material? By noticing that something is not adding up at a certain point. If you rely on an incorrect answer, further material will clash with it eventually one way or another in a lot of areas, as things are typically built one on top of another (assuming we are talking more about math/cs/sciences/music theory/etc., and not something like history). At that…

It absolutely does not work that way. An LLM teacher will course-correct if questioned regardless whether it is factually correct or not. An LLM, by design, does not, in any capacity whatsoever have a concept of factual correctness.

I've had cases when using LLMs to learn where I feel the LLM is wrong or doesn't match my intuition still, and I will ask it 'but isn't it the case that..' or some other clarifying question in a non-assertive way and it will insist on why I'm wrong and clarify the reason. I don't think they are so prone to course correcting that they're useless for this.

Re: Study mode

#658

Post by globular-toast »

jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

20 years ago I used to hang out in IRC channels where I learnt so much. I wasn't afraid of asking stupid questions. These bots are pale imitation of that.

I've learnt a great many things online, but I've also learnt a great many more from books, other people and my own experience. You just have to be selective. Some online tutorials are excellent, for example the Golang and Rust tutorials. But for other things books are better.

What you are missing is the people. We used to have IRC and forums where you could discuss things in great depth. Now that's gone and the web is owned by big tech and governments you're happy to accept a bot instead. It's sad really.

Re: Study mode

#659

Post by ubercow13 »

personalyisus wrote: post #529
filoleg wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How are you supposed to spot errors if you don't know the material? By noticing that something is not adding up at a certain point. If you rely on an incorrect answer, further material will clash with it eventually one way or another in a lot of areas, as things are typically built one on top of another (assuming we are talking more about math/cs/sciences/music theory/etc., and not something like history). At that…

> By noticing that something is not adding up at a certain point. Ah, but information is presented by AI in a way that SOUNDS like it makes absolute sense if one doesn't already know it doesn't! And if you have to question the AI a hundred times to try and "notice that something is not adding up" (if it even happens) then that's no bueno. > In either scenario, the most correct move is to try clarifying it with the te…

On the other hand my favourite use of LLMs for study recently is when other information on a topic is not adding up. Sometimes the available information on a topic is all eliding some assumption that means it doesn't seem to make sense and it can be very hard to piece together for yourself what the gap is. LLMs are great at this, you can explain why you think something doesn't add up and it will let you know what you're missing.

Re: Study mode

#660

Post by johnnyanmac »

puszczyk wrote: post #650
johnnyanmac wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of correcting the teachers with better training, we retreat from education and give it to technocrats? Why are we so afraid of punishing bad, unproductive, and even illegal behavior in 2025?

Looks like we were unable to correct them over the last 3k years. What has changes in 2025 that you think we will succeed in correcting that behavior? Not US based, Central/Eastern Europe: the selection to the teacher profession is negative, due to low salary compared to private sector; this means that the unproductive behaviors are likely going to increase. I'm not saying the AI is the solution here for low teacher…

>Looks like we were unable to correct them over the last 3k years.

What makes you say that?

>What has changes in 2025 that you think we will succeed in correcting that behavior?

60 years ago, corporal punishment was commonplace. Today it is absolutely forbidden. I don't think behaviors among professions need that much time to be changed. I'm sure you can point to behaviors commonplace 10 years ago that have changed in your workplace (for better or worse).

But I suppose your "answer" is 1) a culture more willing to hold professionals accountable instead of holding them as absolute authority and 2) surveillance footage to verify claims made against them. This goes back to Hammurabi: if you punish a bad behavior, many people will adjust.

>the selection to the teacher profession is negative, due to low salary compared to private sector; this means that the unproductive behaviors are likely going to increase.

I'm really holding back my urge to be sarcastic here. I'm trying really hard. But how do I say "well fund your teachers" in any nuanced way? You get what you pay for. A teacher in a classroom of broken windows will not shine inspiration on the next generation.

This isn't a knock on your culture: the US is at a point where a stabucks barista part-time is paid more than some schoolteachers.

>but training is def not the right answer either

I fail to see why not. "We've tried nothing and run out of ideas!", as a famous American saying. Tangible actions:

1) participate in your school board if you have one, be engaged with who is in charge of your education sectors. Voice your concerns with them, and likely any other town or city leaders since I'm sure the problem travels upstream to "we didn't get enough funding from the town"

2) if possible in your country, 100% get out and vote in local elections. The US does vote in part of its boards for school districts, and the turnout for these elections are pathetic. Getting you and a half dozen friends to a voting booth can in fact swing an election.

3) if there's any initiatives, do make sure to vote for funding for educational sectors. Or at least vote against any cuts to education.

4) in general, push for better labor laws. If a minimum wage needs to be higher, do that. Or job protections.

There are actions to take. They don't happen overnight. But we didn't get to this situation overnight either.

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