Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#651

Post by mr_mitm » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 1:51 PM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #536

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money washing and other illegal activities is pretty well established. They even killed the 500€ bank note, because it was almost exclusively used by criminals and most normal people never even touched one, much less used one for legit transactions. At least in Germany in particular older people prefer to pay cash if possible - this gives the banks also…

> At least in Germany in particular older people prefer to pay cash if possible Sure, but that's for small, everyday amounts. For values upwards of 500€, I think the familiarity of paying cash would be swamped by the nervousness of carrying way too much money with you, what if it gets stolen? > this gives the banks also less leverage with respect to abhorent fees The only time my bank has ever charged me a per-transa…

When I bought a piece of furniture in Germany, I had to pay 1/3 right there in the store. They accepted various cards. When it was delivered, I had to pay the remaining balance (four digits) in cash. No other option.

Also, I believe when buying used cars and such, most people still prefer cash transactions.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#652

Post by mrkramer » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 1:56 PM UTC

Arrowmaster wrote: post #283

jhanschoo wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Valve actually have a high risk of chargebacks? I was under the impression that moreso than other platforms, most Valve customers would rather go through Valve's own refund system. I understand that chargebacks is supposedly the reason for adult-only platforms.

Chargebacks of legitimate purchases on most large platforms are extremely rare. Most will be from stolen cards. On most large platforms, if you start a chargeback you can expect your account to get locked. Do you want to give up your entire account just for a refund on one purchase? Luckily these large platforms typically have their own refund process.

>Chargebacks of legitimate purchases on most large platforms are extremely rare. Most will be from stolen cards.

I never used ecommerce back in the day on the internet but I can imagine that ecommerce fraud was widespread. And that's why excluding other reasons Satoshi invented Bitcoin[0].

I wonder if cryptocurrencies didn't exist would someone nowadays burn the midnight oil to figure out P2P crypto coin since modern payment solutions are fairly good.

Tbh I think Satoshi invented technology around which he wanted to build products unlike Steve Jobs who said that you first need to figure out the product then build technology.

[0] "Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for nonreversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need. A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments over a communications channel without a trusted party" https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#653

Post by xcf_seetan » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:00 PM UTC

irusensei wrote: post #487

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

I think the biggest issue here is that somewhere down the line we gave payment processors the responsibility of policing for crime and terrorism. Our governments and regulators punish those institutions for "not doing enough" to prevent such things from happening. You might think I'm defending the multibillion company but here comes the catch: all of this is expensive so when you are doing something funky even though…

>we gave payment processors the responsibility of policing for crime and terrorism

Maybe is time to do a reboot of the economy, what about everyone goes to the bank and withdraw all their money, and when everybody has his money, we put the money back in the bank? Would be funny to see how banks would react :)

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#654

Post by docmars » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:03 PM UTC

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

Get this - they power the payments infrastructure for OnlyFans, which to many people is arguably more degenerate than a few adult-themed games.

People can also buy TV shows and movies in which their content is far more grusome and disturbing than the video-games targeted by the activist groups putting pressure on payment processors.

I noticed someone else posted a list of other groups, but another one is called "Collective Shout", who censors their own ads because their subject matter is considered harmful.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#655

Post by williamdclt » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:05 PM UTC

Tainnor wrote: post #575

williamdclt wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money washing and other illegal activities is pretty well established I think that's very hyperbolic. In france most people I know carry cash and use it regularly (not as much as cards), the gen X and older tend to find it strange to pay for small sums (eg bread) with card. Germany is infamously almost cash-only. In many Central Europe countries, shops takin…

> Germany is infamously almost cash-only. Let's not exaggerate. While I am often enough exasperated at how often certain restaurants or bars will still only accept cash (or sometimes EC card), I'm still able to do about 90% of my transactions by card.

Interesting! As a tourist, almost all my transactions had to be cash: but ofc a tourist and a resident don't have the same spending patterns (mostly bars and restaurant for me)

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#656

Post by docmars » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #553

ijk wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor is the ongoing campaigns from number of moral crusading groups who lobby them to cut off payment processing for things they don't approve of. NCOSE has been working for decades on the project, and targeting credit card companies has been a successful tactic for them for a decade or so. [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-ar... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/why-visa-mastercard-being…

As usual, the actual “cancel culture” comes from the conservatives.

Collective Shout (who pushed for this) is not a conservative group, but rather a feminist activist group based in Australia.

They're responsible for numerous other calls for bans against games like Detroit: Become Human, GTA, etc.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#657

Post by amelius » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

kergonath wrote: post #546

amelius wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the fuck do we allow credit card companies have a say in how we spend our money? Because sadly 80% of people are sheep. Same reason we allow a company to decide what we can and cannot install on our smartphones.

When I buy an iPhone I am dealing with Apple. I know what I am buying and what I can or cannot do with the device. And if I am not happy there are alternatives. When I buy stuff on Steam I am in no way making a contract with Visa. When Visa strong arms Valve to delist games I lose even if I never had any relation with Visa ever. It really is not comparable.

Following your argument ... then don't choose Steam, there are plenty of alternatives! /s

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Traitor...

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#658

Post by docmars » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:12 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #456

maxbond wrote: post #161

Why do payment processors do stuff like this? Is there some regulation that requires them to? I get that they don't want to process fraudulent transactions, but I'd think the response to a higher percentage of fraud from some industry would be to charge them more. It doesn't make sense to me why they would be concerned about the content of games, as long as everything is legal and the parties concerned aren't subject…

Just one of the ways the US forces it's weird morals onto the world.

This originated from an Australian-based feminist activist group called "Collective Shout", who put pressure on the payment processors to censor digital content.

They claimed it as their own victory on X this week.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#659

Post by fwn » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

9dev wrote: post #527

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money washing and other illegal activities is pretty well established. They even killed the 500€ bank note, because it was almost exclusively used by criminals and most normal people never even touched one, much less used one for legit transactions. At least in Germany in particular older people prefer to pay cash if possible - this gives the banks also…

> Since many people in Germany neither trust the banks nor the government anymore, acting this way is very rational. Speak for yourself, this is either heavily overstated or a fringe opinion, luckily. Most people definitely do trust both government and banks to a sensible degree, even if they don’t like some decisions. Some people like you apparently also don’t appreciate the immense freedom of SEPA transactions. Sur…

> Most people [in Germany] definitely do trust both government and banks to a sensible degree, even if they don’t like some decisions.

The major far-right fundamentalist opposition party has built its unprecedented success on a narrative of low government trust, and has been gaining ground in both polls and elections for years and years now.

So perhaps we shouldn't dismiss the parents' perspective entirely.

> Some people like you apparently also don’t appreciate the immense freedom of SEPA transactions.

If you include the wrong words in the transaction description, your account will almost certainly be cancelled. In a truly free payment system that safeguards democratic freedoms, these descriptions would be encrypted from end to end. (Just in the same way all personal communication should be protected.) This will, of course, never happen.

> And above all else, we have a working democracy and not an oppressive regime? This whole debate often feels very disconnected and overblown in Germany.

Any data we collect will probably be misused at some point in the future. Why take a risk with German institutions if we don't have to?

Germany recently experimented with greater financial control over some parts of the population, and it wasn't a total disaster in terms of control. In terms of freedom, however, it is a disaster.

Unfortunately, the source is German-language: https://netzpolitik.org/2024/faq-was-bezahlkarten-fuer-geflu...

Despite cash being a pillar of freedom and democracy in an open society, there is still no good anonymous alternative to it that is usable by normal people on a daily basis.

Re: Valve confirms credit card companies pressured it to delist certain adult games

#660

Post by redeeman » Sat, Jul 19, 2025, 2:28 PM UTC

sigmoid10 wrote: post #488

p0w3n3d wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh that's quite alarming what you've just said, and I'm not saying about government. I'm saying about an additional huge sales tax. I understand that wiring money or sending them in an envelope is the thing of past, but e.g. in my country and in whole EU the digital payment is promoted as the only righteous, because "cash is only used by gangsters and human traffickers" etc. And this is really playing against us and…

Credit cards are much less heavily relied on in Europe than in the USA. Europe basically runs on debit cards that every kid can have and where the fees are minuscule. There are countless banks providing the service and everything is highly regulated. On top of that, Europe still curbed Visa and Mastercard several times for antitrust behaviour. And the idea that physical money primarily aids social fraud, money launde…

> because it was almost exclusively used by criminals and most normal people never even touched one, much less used one for legit transactions.

thats BS. most people have indeed had such, and while not frequent, it was fully legit.

The real reason they want to do away with cash is so they can monitor everything you buy, and in time, perhaps more