I'm switching to Python and actually liking it

Post by NekkoDroid » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 2:24 PM UTC

suspended_state wrote: post #420

NekkoDroid wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While somewhat true, what would this be bound to? for i in range(0): pass

Well, after writing my comment, I realized that a python interpreter could define the variable and set it to None between the guarded block and the except block, and implicitly assign it to the raised exception right before evaluating the except block, when the exception as been raised. So technically, it would be possible to define the variable e in GP example and have it scoped to "whatever is after the guarded blo…

Post by dec0dedab0de » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 2:34 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #351

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you could say the same thing about a dozen other languages, but there is definitely a stereotypical cranky java dev that is frustrated writing corporate crud apps that should in theory be blazingly fast, but never quite are for reasons. They revel in the verbosity, and look down on anyone they feel is taking the easy path. If you've never met one you're lucky, but they've been at every company I ever worked for.

> you could say the same thing about a dozen other languages No, you could not. You could say it about maybe four others: PHP, C, C++, and C#. No other languages have anywhere near the userbase size while being fairly quiet when it comes to online tech discussion. I agree there are crusty old Java devs (as well as crusty old C, C++, PHP, etc. devs). In a decade or two, there will be crusty old TypeScript devs. It's j…

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 2:50 PM UTC

dndurbah wrote: post #418

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #358

Maybe I'm the only one that finds Python simultaneously verbose and lacking? Either you need 500 dependencies to do something in a simple way, or you need dozens (if not hundreds) of lines to do trivial things. I avoid writing Python because there's so much bullshit to add. Much prefer Perl, I can actually get things done quickly. Python feels like programming for the sake of programming.

> Much prefer Perl, I can actually get things done quickly Python lets you just nest data structures without having to twist your brain. You want a tuple in a list in a dictionary value: you just write it down and can access it with a unified notation. Bam. No reference madness and thinking about contexts. It's a big part of what I typically need to get things done quickly and understand how I did it 5 years later. T…

  perl  "here we go", foo => $object );
  my @array1 = ( undef, undef, undef, \%hash1 );
  my %hash2  = ( bar => \@array1 );
  my $reference = \%hash2;

  print( $reference->{bar}->[3]->{baz}, "\n" );
  print( $reference->{bar}->[3]->{foo}->('thingy') , "\n" );
  print( $reference->{bar}->[3]->{foo}->('something') , "\n" );
  EOF
  here we go
  hello world!
  goodbye world!

Post by frollogaston » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 3:02 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #593

frollogaston wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about pip, not venv. I don't use venv either, not because I think it's a bad idea but because I can't be bothered. Stuff does end up conflicting unless I use Docker (lol) or uv.

As another commenter alluded: It's clear your knowledge of the topic at hand is poor. It's wise to keep silent in such cases.

Post by frollogaston » Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 3:07 PM UTC

762236 wrote: post #458

wpm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a silly theory that I only half joke about that docker/containers wouldn't've ever taken off as fast as it did if it didn't solve the horrible python dependency hell so well. You know something is bad when fancy chrooting is the only ergonomic way of shipping something that works. My first taste of Python was as a sysadmin, back in 2012 or so, installing a service written in Python on a server. The dependency…

I won't touch Python either, but because I've been burned debugging large Python programs. Something that would have taken a minute in a statically typed language took hours of tracing data through the program to understand what was supposed to be in a dict. There are alternative languages that are pithy, statically typed, can write programs quickly, and can grow into large code bases that are maintainable; so there…