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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#651

Post by dizlexic »

edanm wrote: post #538
xg15 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, we want to end it through the Two-State Solution (though even what this means is vague - certainty not the borders of 1967 that Palestinians and Arabs are demanding) But yeah, in practice, we seem to want it to end with full Israeli dominance, and the Palestinians either emigrating to Egypt and Jordan or vanishing into thin air, I suppose.

> But yeah, in practice, we seem to want it to end with full Israeli dominance, and the Palestinians either emigrating to Egypt and Jordan or vanishing into thin air, I suppose. No, the majority of the West strongly wants a two-state solution (on the 1967 border, roughly). So did many Israelis, who voted people into office intent on achieving that goal many times. The problem is, Israel and Palestine never managed to…

Not to mention that all the Palestinian borders are made up, and they've actively disagreed with them as defined by intermediaries every time.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#652

Post by hayst4ck »

lordofgibbons wrote: post #73

This genocide has, for many people, burst any illusions of a "rules based world order". There multiple EU signatory countries of the Rome Statute (pledging to cooperate with ICC) that have welcomed these war criminals... who have warrants out by the ICC. And the same war criminals are invited to give a speech at the U.S Congress to near unanimous applause. It really makes you wonder if we're the "good guys". -- edit…

Watching Blinken say "rules based international order" on camera about Ukraine was one of the few times I felt good about American foreign policy, then watching Blinken talk about Israel made it clear that it's rules for our enemies only, and loyalty for our "friends" which is the precise opposite of a rules based international order.

Hearing democrats decry Russian foreign influence was also something I was on board with, but much like Nancy Pelosi saying it's not corrupt when she trades on stock with private information, apparently it's not corrupt when the democratic party accepts foreign aid in the form of AIPAC donations, or just as likely threats of the use of Pegasus against them.

It is quite sad to be an American of good conscience right now. It's hard to respect our country in any way when it shows such little moral fiber and such little backbone.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#653

Post by jekwoooooe »

perlgeek wrote: post #79
ahartmetz wrote: post #26

Why though, what does it achieve? Do they want to make sure that there will be terrorists / freedom fighters in the future so that they have a reason not to negotiate? Because they expect to "win" if violence continues?

From Israel's perspective, Palestinians are a problem. Long term, they have a few options: 1) Give them their own state. This is difficult for quite many reasons, and Israel (by which I mean the current government) doesn't want that 2) Give them full citizenship rights equal to Israel's citizens, make sure they have a proper minority representation, and let them participate in the regular political processes. The cur…

And why are they Israel’s problem to solve? What about Jordan who expelled EVERY Palestinian in 1970? What about Qatar? What about Egypt? Lebanon? Any Arab country???

Why is it Israel’s problem? There was a legal agreement in 1948. It could have been so simple.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#654

Post by vkou »

razemio wrote: post #540
FireBeyond wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like several months ago, “we advise Gazans to move to southern Gaza as operations intensify in the north”. Within days: “Israeli bombing of southern Gaza intensifies 80%”.

I have to say, these warnings are byond any logic I can comprehend. It it not like Hamas does not get these warnings. Obviously they moved aswell. Then again, was this intended by Israel? So in the end nobody can trust these warnings. They are pointless.

The target for the warnings isn't Palestinians, it's a figleaf for international media.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#656

Post by prmoustache »

ost-ing wrote: post #484
7sigma wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point of view whitewashes a lot of the history. Israel has been doing horrible things since its founding to Palestinians, starting with the Nakba in 1948 which was an ethnic cleaning campaign to create an ethno state. Many massacres occurred like in Deir Yassin in 1948 and continued with other massacres like in Kahn Younis in 1956 where they lined up more than 200 men over 15 and executed them against the wall.…

> Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. Not true, many Semitic Jews who fled from those lands due to persecution went to Europe and North Africa, that includes Ashkenazi and Sephardim Jews. The difficulty I have with your statement is akin to denying a white, blue eyed aboriginal in Australia their heritage to the land just because one of…

Palestinians are genetically closer to the jews that populated those lands centuries ago. The reality is palestinians ancestors were mostly jews who decided to convert to islam. Denying their rights to continue living there is absurd.

The state of Israel is just another example of euro white colonialism.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#657

Post by [deleted] »

jekwoooooe wrote: post #653
perlgeek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Israel's perspective, Palestinians are a problem. Long term, they have a few options: 1) Give them their own state. This is difficult for quite many reasons, and Israel (by which I mean the current government) doesn't want that 2) Give them full citizenship rights equal to Israel's citizens, make sure they have a proper minority representation, and let them participate in the regular political processes. The cur…

And why are they Israel’s problem to solve? What about Jordan who expelled EVERY Palestinian in 1970? What about Qatar? What about Egypt? Lebanon? Any Arab country??? Why is it Israel’s problem? There was a legal agreement in 1948. It could have been so simple.

[deleted]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#658

Post by actionfromafar »

basisword wrote: post #313
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

>> An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead. You have to look at the other side too. Palestinian's are born knowing that Israeli's have taken lots of their land through violent force. And they want to take more of it. And while the Israeli's live in a well developed wealthy nation they are condemned to poverty. Co…

And in the US insurrectionists are pardoned. That’s a striking parallel.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#659

Post by neepi »

edanm wrote: post #626
the__alchemist wrote: post #218

Some context first so my opinion isn't misconstrued as as leftist stereotype. This is within context of the behavior described in the article. - I'm a Jew in USA, and served in the military for more than a decade. - I used to get annoyed by the Palestinian protests I'd see in the years before this, and generally sided with Israel, and the operations its military performed in counter-Shia-militia operations etc in the…

I'll provide context too - I'm a Jewish Israeli. I'd probably be considered left (or even far-left) by Israeli standards, but I'm in the "pro-Israeli" camp as conventionally understood online. This Haaretz article is very troubling. To the extent it's accurate, there's not much question that it reflects war crimes. A few thoughts: 1. The article itself says there is an ongoing investigation into some of these accusat…

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to.

All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the headline changes context very quickly from the first cut to what people read and remember. (I wrote an extensive suite of software to track this)

Wait and see. Do not judge too early. Take nothing as verbatim from anyone without evidence.

Don't be unknowing partisans of an information war. Veracity takes time.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#660

Post by Gibbon1 »

LePetitPrince wrote: post #576
bigyabai wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are children. That's why we respond with abject horror when you see them hungry and huddled, riddled with bullets. If you have to prepend a nationality to "child" to justify it, then I regret to inform you that you are a racist. It doesn't matter whether it happens in Israeli-occupied territory or an American middle school. It's absolutely reprehensible. "stop killing children you dislike" or "stop targeting…

[flagged]

I always strikes me how the people that encourage the Palestinians to start wars they can't win are oblivious to how much of a shit bag they are for doing that.
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