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CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

nytimes.com

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Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#651

Post by andy_ppp »

andy_ppp wrote: post #53

We can conclude nothing, except that humans do stupid stuff and usually conspiracy theories are incorrect. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Do we actually know if NIH was doing gain of function research (on Corona viruses) in the Wuhan lab? It sounds like another right wing conspiracy theory but if people have high quality sources for this being true I’ll happily change my mind.

I can’t believe how much people want to find a reason for this with great certainty. It’s impossible to prove either way…

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#652

Post by oneshtein »

throwaway290 wrote: post #592
krona wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main database of samples and viral sequences of the Wuhan Institute of Virology went offline on Sep 12th 2019.

That's a smoking gun. And next month it was likely already circulating in Wuhan ( https://www.reuters.com/world/china/first-covid-19-case-coul... ), coincidence. > A joint study published by China and the World Health Organization at the end of March acknowledged there could have been sporadic human infections before the Wuhan outbreak.

No, it doesn't. Quote from the article:

> Researchers from Britain's University of Kent used methods from conservation science to estimate that SARS-CoV-2 first appeared from early October to mid-November 2019, according to a paper published in the PLOS Pathogens journal.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#653

Post by sumedh »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #610

If the cia wants to prove something, they do. See the Saddam Hussein weapon of mass destruction that never actually existed. The fact they can't prove it and have low confidence on this theory means it has absolutely zero credibility. I see a pattern in the news these last month of warmongering, from the US to China. Maybe I'm wrong but history has shown that with the us, everytime they want to make a war they first…

China did not allow any outsiders to check the lab which means they knew it was a lab leak. China has no credibility here.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#654

Post by oneshtein »

the_why_of_y wrote: post #601
Dalewyn wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My priors include all the agencies (the Intelligence Community , arguably the deep state) having ulterior political and personal motives. Does noone remember the Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction hoax that the CIA cooked up for GWB? I would not trust any of these agencies to provide objective findings or conclusions, there is a lot of power on the table that's at stake.

The CIA did not cook up the Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction hoax. Paul Wolfowitz had to create an entirely new intelligence agency with hand-picked analysts to get that result, because the existing agencies refused to make that claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

According to Iraq general, WMD were moved to Syria about 6 month prior to invasion, then Syrian government used them against rebels.

HANNITY: So he had them.

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: Where were they? And were they moved and where?

SADA: Well, up to the year 2002, 2002, in summer, they were in Iraq. And after that, when Saddam realized that the inspectors are coming on the first of November and the Americans are coming, so he took the advantage of a natural disaster happened in Syria, a dam was broken. So he — he announced to the world that he is going to make an air bridge...

HANNITY: You know for a fact he moved these weapons to Syria?

SADA: Yes.

HANNITY: How do you know that?

SADA: I know it because I have got the captains of the Iraqi airway that were my friends, and they told me these weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria.

BECKEL: How did he move them, general? How were they moved?

SADA: They were moved by air and by ground, 56 sorties by jumbo, 747, and 27 were moved, after they were converted to cargo aircraft, they were moved to Syria.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#655

Post by camgunz »

mike_hearn wrote: post #631
choppaface wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also important to weight dramatic changes in the White House this week, too, right? There’s the intel itself, but then there’s also the guy trying to control the news cycle.

That's a two sided argument. You could also argue the prior view was being suppressed by the previous White House, for the same reasons.

There's not an equivalence between post-Cold War Democratic and Republican administrations manipulating intelligence. My evidence is the Iraq War and Valerie Plame.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#657

Post by maxglute »

sumedh wrote: post #653
aucisson_masque wrote: post #610

If the cia wants to prove something, they do. See the Saddam Hussein weapon of mass destruction that never actually existed. The fact they can't prove it and have low confidence on this theory means it has absolutely zero credibility. I see a pattern in the news these last month of warmongering, from the US to China. Maybe I'm wrong but history has shown that with the us, everytime they want to make a war they first…

China did not allow any outsiders to check the lab which means they knew it was a lab leak. China has no credibility here.

>US did not allow any outsiders to check out Fort Detrick which means they knew it was a US engineered bioweapon. US has no credibility here.

PRC maintains covid came from outside of PRC, they have no reason to let their labs be scrutinized by outside actors just because Mike Pompeo / CIA made up antiPRC propaganda. That's want weak idiots do. Reality is PRC already waste effort entertaining WHO, until US reciprocates by openning up US biolabs for international access to entertain PRC propaganda, they nor their narrative or people that endorse them have credibility either.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#658

Post by rob_c »

drewbug01 wrote: post #17

> The agency made its new assessment with “low confidence,” which means the intelligence behind it is fragmentary and incomplete. I do believe that's all one really needs to know about this shift in their thinking. In other words: it's really far from certain. --- One thing that is, however, quite certain: there are very real political reasons to favor one theory or another. For example, Sen. Tom Cotton is quoted as…

Sigh again this is where we were ending up.

> So... I'm not certain this is a development worth trusting. Maybe it really did originate from a lab! But the real goal of the constant back-and-forth over where it came from is not about finding the truth; that much seems quite obvious to me.

0. COVID-19 was mostly harmless. Even more so than Douglas Adam's books. 1. China reacted asif they'd accidentally released a bioweapon. 2. China did what it does best, shut the F up on the world stage. 3. Everyone saw China's reaction because this isn't the 1950s and the internet exists. 4. The developed nations freaked out until there was data, hence the first set of lockdowns in Europe very quickly. 5. 2-3 years later after media pantomime, sectarian politics, holier than though preaching from everyone, the WHO declared the "emergency" over.

Some countries achieved 80%+ vaccination rates, didn't see 20% die. Some only achieved 50% and didn't see 50% death rates.

We now have a serious economic tab to be paid because of the BS pushed by developed countries in a panic that might have been less dramatic had there been information available from day 1.

China _has_ hidden and or destroyed a lot of "evidence" making certain discussions mute. (Again they are good at this let's not pretend otherwise).

Western countries, who, _like china_, jumped on a "who can punch themselves hardest with policy?" approach to this unknown now want someone else to blame.

Aka because we can pin a small significance and serious fault on China being a bad neighbour. (Snooze to the sensible this isn't news, china is very private about internal policy and now even more so) We are choosing to blame them for everything to get motivation up to get them to pay the bill...

This unfortunately was clear winter of 2020 and is clear now, it's just taken 4-5yr for politics to go through it's "he said she said" cycle. And I'm not referring to the US or UK political cycles this is the slow bi-partizan we all need someone to blame rather than be introspective and realise __"We should have handled this better"__.

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#659

Post by VMG »

disambiguation wrote: post #358
Analemma_ wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the real goal of the constant back-and-forth over where it came from is not about finding the truth; that much seems quite obvious to me. Yes, the annoying thing is that "the truth about covid" literally only matters to culture war grievances, it has no relevance whatsoever to the actual world. If it was a lab leak, then China needs to improve their BSL-4 safety... but they need to do that anyway[0]. If it was…

Wow do we live in the same "actual world?" If we knew for certain that covid began in the Wuhan lab, it would be World War 3. I get your perspective: an outbreak is an unfortunate byproduct of the risks necessary for scientific progress. No one couldve known how bad it would be. The damage is done, learn from your mistakes and move on. Very enlightened. In the real world, people will lose their absolute shit. There w…

> If we knew for certain that covid began in the Wuhan lab, it would be World War 3.

1. why?

2. that attitude strongly disincentives the discovery of the truth. If that were true I would support a cover up!

Re: CIA now favors lab leak theory to explain Covid's origins

#660

Post by sumedh »

maxglute wrote: post #657
sumedh wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China did not allow any outsiders to check the lab which means they knew it was a lab leak. China has no credibility here.

>US did not allow any outsiders to check out Fort Detrick which means they knew it was a US engineered bioweapon. US has no credibility here. PRC maintains covid came from outside of PRC, they have no reason to let their labs be scrutinized by outside actors just because Mike Pompeo / CIA made up antiPRC propaganda. That's want weak idiots do. Reality is PRC already waste effort entertaining WHO, until US reciprocate…

Has there been any global virus outbreak from Fort Detrick or the US?

US govt funded some research in the lab which leaked the virus in Wuhan, is Chinese govt funding Fort Detrick?

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