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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#651

Post by cultofmetatron »

alex1138 wrote: post #300
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

Yeah, sure, it's all Israel's fault, after the 1200 people slaughtered on October 7

> it's all Israel's fault, after the 1200 people slaughtered on October 7

This did not start on oct 7th. I too was ignorant about the situation in palestine but its obvious after just a bit of research that israel isn't a good faith actor here.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MknerYjob0w&t=37s&ab_channel...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoFjbnvkmQ0&ab_channel=Amnes...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYgwKhzHeGc&t=569s&ab_channe...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2unZIzIwp0&ab_channel=AlJaz...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYEHhCkedo&ab_channel=TheGu...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhXIYns7ZeM&ab_channel=AlJaz...

PS: yes I know I'll be flagged for this but truth is important.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#652

Post by edanm »

tdeck wrote: post #522
halflife wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Gaza bombed at the 6th of oct? Or before that?

Yes, repeatedly. For example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2023_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel... Here is a longer list where I found this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Israeli_attacks_aga...

Just to highlight what's in the first paragraph of that link - a Palestinian prisoner died due to a hunger strike, which caused Palestinian Jihad to fire 100 rockets at Israel. This is what caused Israel to bomb Gaza.

I'm not sure if this is evidence of Israel "not obeying a ceasefire".

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#653

Post by [deleted] »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #616
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

I mean, the IRA succeeded and that wasn't but 20-30 years ago? They are largely no longer seen as terrorists. Hell, Israel is a good source of terrorist groups becoming legitimate. Prime Minister Menachim Begin went from leading a terror outfit to elected Prime Minister

[deleted]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#654

Post by HelloNurse »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #379
boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

I like how even in this thread, you have many people - almost certainly very few of whom have no real stake in the fight - bitterly arguing about who is right and wrong (turning it into a fight about US politics as a bonus). Human nature and tribalism really is a terrible thing sometimes. I agree with you, although I certainly hope you and I are wrong. It would be nice to see people let go of past injustices on both…

I count myself fortunate for missing the references to US politics, but seeing oppression and war discussed with a framing of "who should win" as a dispute of claims, history and ethnicity rather than as a tragedy of money, military power and cruelty (what is the problem that is solved by bombing children?) is very disheartening.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#655

Post by WrongAssumption »

slt2021 wrote: post #536
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

yes it is. before oct7 there was a somewhat broad consensus that Hamas are bad and are terrorists. nowadays however, Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump, given his zionist position

You said tomorrow they will win and be called freedom fighters. I don’t follow. Does it look to you like Hamas won?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#656

Post by KikoHeit »

lostlogin wrote: post #528
KikoHeit wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is just such a toxic thread. What say did the civilian victims in Gaza have in the horrific acts by Hamas? There isn’t even a glimmer of moderation in anything I see in the argument here.

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#657

Post by 6510 »

redmajor12 wrote: post #648
zkry wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians That's an incredible statement, as if the rest of the world is somehow different. The only thing special about these regions is that they've had complex states for longer, so of course state-based warfare would go back farther. On another level, there absolutely have been periods of stability in regions…

Western Europe went through ~200 years of brutal religious wars from the advent of Protestantism. The same is going on in the Mideast, it just started only 100 years ago with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#658

Post by edanm »

tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

I'm going to push back on this a little bit.

I agree that most reporting, and most statements from US officials, put the blame squarely on Hamas for not having accepted a deal earlier.

But there is also at least some sense, definitely reported on in Israel, that this time Israel was far more serious about getting a deal done - ergo, in the past rounds of negotiations Israel was not pursuing a deal as seriously.

In particular, Ben Gvir (a right-wing extremist Israeli politician) a couple of days ago took credit for causing the previous ceasefire deals to not happen. This has been talked about a bunch in Israel.

I think you're right in thinking of it as Hamas should've called Israel's bluff and had a deal sooner, but let's also be realistic in understanding that they might've correctly seen Israel as not really trying to get a deal.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#659

Post by amenhotep »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #616
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

I mean, the IRA succeeded and that wasn't but 20-30 years ago? They are largely no longer seen as terrorists. Hell, Israel is a good source of terrorist groups becoming legitimate. Prime Minister Menachim Begin went from leading a terror outfit to elected Prime Minister

The IRA of the 20s Irish war of independence succeeded, but were less obviously terrorists. I think it's inaccurate to say that the provos succeeded. Success for them would've been if Northern Ireland left the UK and joined the Republic. It didn't. The Good Friday agreement is hardly an unalloyed win for them.

And, um, they absolutely largely are seen as terrorists.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#660

Post by adhamsalama »

beagle3 wrote: post #561
npn wrote: post #472

How many square kilometers of land does Israel gain this time?

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

[flagged]
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