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TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#651

Post by dingnuts »

toofy wrote: post #636
some_random wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly true and it's a good thing for the US to prevent hostile, autocratic, foreign powers from gaining undue cultural power.

i would argue, if it’s that powerful, it should be illegal for anyone to have that sort of power. from china to musk to zuckerberg to religions. we really should ask ourselves why we’re continuing to allow some to continue these abuses…. there should be laws in place to stop all of them.

The type of power China has is very different than Zuck's. You aren't going to get taken to a black site for talking about Tianamen Square on Facebook. (or something like the Tusla Race Massacre may be a better example, since that is embarrassing to the US similarly to Tianamen Square in China)

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#652

Post by bojan »

some_random wrote: post #624
tnt128 wrote: post #614

Let’s be clear about one thing: it’s never about protecting the privacy of private citizens—that’s just the justification. Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. The U.S. has held a monopoly on this power, leveraging it to gather data on citizens worldwide and projecting our value systems onto others. Banning TikTok is simply an effort by us to main…

That's mostly true and it's a good thing for the US to prevent hostile, autocratic, foreign powers from gaining undue cultural power.

It's a good thing for anyone. Which is why the EU should find the way to restrain, or completely ban if necessary, American social media.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#653

Post by hnpolicestate »

tnt128 wrote: post #614

Let’s be clear about one thing: it’s never about protecting the privacy of private citizens—that’s just the justification. Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. The U.S. has held a monopoly on this power, leveraging it to gather data on citizens worldwide and projecting our value systems onto others. Banning TikTok is simply an effort by us to main…

It demonstrates Western weakness. Remember, during the Cold war the "iron curtain" was meant to prevent Soviets from seeing Western culture, political points of views.

The United States does not feel confident in its ability to persuade Americans that it's model, culture and political ideals are superior to global alternatives. Hence a Western Iron Curtain.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#654

Post by dhc02 »

mywittyname wrote: post #640
some_random wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's mostly true and it's a good thing for the US to prevent hostile, autocratic, foreign powers from gaining undue cultural power.

It would be nice if they could also prevent hostile autocratic domestic(ish) powers from leveraging their current cultural power. But they didn't, so naturally those in power are going to build their moat to maintain it.

I have been coming around to the idea that we should ban all* algorithmic content surfacing.

It's taken a while, but the longer we go down this path, the more clear it seems that it is impossible to design a content algorithm that does not have significant negative cultural side effects. This is not to say that content algorithms don't have benefits; they do. It's just that they can't be useful (i.e., designed to optimize for some profitable metric) without causing harm.

I think something like asbestos is a good metaphor: Extremely useful, but the long-term risks outweigh any possible gains.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#655

Post by xnx »

some_random wrote: post #630
xnx wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. Fox News and talk radio demonstrate that isn't true in the US.

[flagged]

What are the driving platforms behind the American right wing?

Fox News viewers watched 14 hours/week in 2022. The average US Tikok user spends 10.5 hours/week in the app.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#656

Post by hiatus »

fckgw wrote: post #323
ChrisArchitect wrote: post #290

What if any practical effect will this have on American users if 150M of them already have the app downloaded? A pop-up that doesn't block use of the app? Haven't seen anything about an IP ban/block (ahem, great firewall), nothing's going to block anyone from business as usual on Sunday right? There's no 'shut down'. And other than a bunch of misinformed users jumping over to RedNote briefly or whatever, the only dif…

Yes, you can do an IP block and you can also detect VPN clients and block those. If the companies is barred from doing business with US users then they will be required to take reasonable steps to block those users.

> If the companies is barred from doing business with US users then they will be required to take reasonable steps to block those users.

Or what? I don't think a US-brought lawsuit would succeed in China.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#657

Post by tnt128 »

some_random wrote: post #627
mullingitover wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US censorship of Chinese social media apps on these grounds sure makes it look like China was completely justified in doing it first.

Could you elaborate on that? I have no clue how the US banning TikTok for granting the CCP the ability to algorithmically influence the views of Americans somehow justifies the decade plus of the GFW, blocking Western social media, rampant censorship, etc.

Data sovereignty — the idea that every country should protect and prevent its citizens’ data from foreign entities.

We never discussed this seriously before because we held a monopoly on it. For decades, other countries provided us with a direct feed of their data. Only recently have they begun to grasp the ramifications of that.

China never bought into that narrative. They have consistently upheld their data sovereignty policy, requiring foreign entities to host servers within their borders to operate, and that looks like the direction the rest of the world is heading.

I wish for an open world where data & communication flows freely, but it's unclear who can be trusted to wield that power.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#658

Post by coryfklein »

Miner49er wrote: post #494
tevon wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes no sense to me how this is an argument of free speech. I assume you are saying this is curtailing the creators speech? However the creators can move to any other platform, they are not being restricted in what they can say or produce. So perhaps the concern is about TikTok's free speech; which, thank god the constitution does not protect a foreign adversaries right to free speech.

Free speech includes the right to receive/hear speech. TikTok contains lots of speech that US citizens have the right to hear.

This is completely untrue, there are unlimited examples of speech that exists out there that you have absolutely no inherent right to hear, and in fact many existing laws explicitly support restrictions on your ability to hear the speech. Just a few examples off the top of my head; do I have the right to hear:

* A comedian at a paid event when I haven't paid

* Private conversations between you and your significant other

* DMs between other people on social media

* Podcasts published exclusively on Spotify when I don't have a membership

* Speech in walled gardens (FB, Insta, X, etc) where I don't have an account

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#659

Post by staticman2 »

paxys wrote: post #222

Anyone remember when they were in school and adults tried to ban access to a popular website? I imagine this ban will go down exactly the same. Never underestimate a bored teenager's ability to bypass tech restrictions. Heck maybe this is what is needed to finally get a new generation out of the comforts of their tech walled garden and get their hands dirty.

The only reason social media is popular is Americans are too lazy to find stuff on the open web. They'd prefer the lazier option of the single web site deciding for them what to see and think about.

There's zero chance most will put in effort to access TikTok.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#660

Post by Karrot_Kream »

segasaturn wrote: post #383
rwarfield wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big issue isn't data security; it's propaganda. Irrespective of whether the government has control of the narrative on Facebook (I would argue they pretty clearly don't) there is no reason to let a foreign adversary have a deniable propaganda line to millions of Americans. Would we have let the USSR acquire a major television network? And even if you disagree with the national security reasons for disallowing Chi…

> Irrespective of whether the government has control of the narrative on Facebook (I would argue they pretty clearly don't) Posting pro-Palestinian content on Facebook will get your account terminated for "supporting terrorism". The pro-western censorship regime on FB is extremely strong. US lawmakers specifically cited the amount of pro-Palestinian content on TikTok as why they were banning the app. Sources: https:/…

Here's my big concern: If every big social media provider has to bake American policy position into its algorithm, what's going to happen to approaches like Bluesky or Mastodon/ActivityPub which allow users to choose their own algorithm?
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