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Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

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Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#651

Post by vasco »

tsimionescu wrote: post #647
vasco wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Mars. Tourism can make a lot of money.

Not this type of tourism. It might make a small amount of money, but there is no huge market for extremely expensive (think a hundred thousand dollars per trip per person) but 0-comfort exploration of barren wastelands that you can't even see for more than maybe an hour or risk being radiation poisoned. Will there be a trickle of extremely wealthy dare-devils? Sure. But this is neither a Greek island nor Monaco.

I agree it's not as straightforward and accept your version of the future as very real possibility as well, but I'm focusing more on the aspect of showing off something that differentiates you. Already on instagram you have plenty of things with lots of views and social capital that generate a great picture of a specific view, but the actual experience of getting there or everything around it are miserable. People pay a lot of money to have something that can make them feel special and going to Mars would have that property maxed out.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#653

Post by shadowerm »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #595
numpad0 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but they're not making money and there are plenty substitutes. I bet they have practically zero paid customer retention rate. People say they love it, so what.

>I bet they have practically zero paid customer retention rate Why do you think that? I know a few people with a subscription but I don't think I know anyone who has cancelled. Even people who have mainly moved to Claude kept the plus subscription because it's so cheap and o1 is sometimes useful for stuff Claude can't do.

This is my first weekend with no subscription to a model since the day chatGPT4 came out.

I feel like I got to a point of increasingly diminishing returns from the models. I know what they are good at and what they are not good at so I started avoiding what they are not good at.

It reminds me of Jaron Lanier saying years ago that we have to be on guard to not start acting stupid to make AI seem smarter. I had surely started doing that.

This is quite a nice feeling. I can still learn things the model sucks at. I could feel a creep coming into my head that there was no point in learning something the model wasn't good at.

The models are amazing at reinventing the wheel in React. Mapping this as if it scales to all human activity though is completely delusional.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#654

Post by happyraul »

inertiatic wrote: post #545
mnky9800n wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to sit and wait for a robo uber in the suburbs for ten minutes to go to the grocery store ten miles down the road. This is the main problem, America has suburbanised itself to hell and no amount of robo taxis will create the world you are suggesting. And elsewhere in the world there’s no need because most places have adequate public transit which solves the problem way more efficiently than robo taxis…

People wait for things all the time and if it can take away the hassle or driving your kids somewhere, maintaining multiple vehicles for multiple family members etc. I'd bet that it does take off. Public transport doesn't solve groceries or other types of shopping though even in highly connected cities, especially for people with health problems or just aging ones.

Imagine a parent today driving to work and dropping off their two kids at school on the way. Instead of one car making three stops, you're suggesting three robo taxis would accomplish the same thing. What do you think already clogged roads would look like in this future? The only scalable solution is public transit, walking, and cycling.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#655

Post by thrw42A8N »

chgs wrote: post #605
thrw42A8N wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because people are behind the wheel. Once car ownership drops, the computerized traffic control can get much more efficient.

Computerised public transport is even more efficient Your public transport with robo taxis takes up far more space in the surface than there is available in a normal city, as shown in this photo. https://danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/

Not sure what you think is my public transport. My ideal computerized public transport combines vehicles of all sizes and types, and an uber-like app let's me choose what I prefer based on cost and other attributes.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#656

Post by xdavidliu »

tivert wrote: post #261
ben_w wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if so, that's still showing awareness of what his critics are critical of. Now, can you make a falsifiable prediction: what would a narcissist do that a normal person would not, such that you can tell if he's engaging in a narcissist process rather that what your own link also says is a perfectly normal and healthy behaviour?

> Even if so, that's still showing awareness of what his critics are critical of. Mere awareness is really that meaningful. >>> and he actively empathised with the protestors. >> https://www.simplypsychology.org/narcissistic-mirroring.html > Now, can you make a falsifiable prediction: what would a narcissist do that a normal person would not, such that you can tell if he's engaging in a narcissist process rather that…

nit: isn't really that meaningful

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#657

Post by insane_dreamer »

kulahan wrote: post #186
this_user wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised with the protestors. He always does that to give himself cover, but he has clearly shown that his words mean very little in this regard. He always dodges criticism. He used to talk about the importance of him being accountable to the OpenAI board and them bei…

Wasn't he fired for questionable reasons? I thought everyone wanted him back, and that's why he was able to return. It was, as I remember, just the board that wanted him out. I imagine if he was doing something truly nefarious, opinions might have been different, but I have no idea what kind of cult of personality he has at that company, so I might be wrong here.

He was fired because he was leading the for profit in a direction that was contrary to the mission of the non profit parent that was supposed to be controlling the for profit.

Those working for the for profit got $$$ in their eyes once MSFT started throwing billions at them and said fuck the mission and bring back Altman we’re going full Gordon Gekko now.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#658

Post by DennisP »

happyraul wrote: post #654
inertiatic wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People wait for things all the time and if it can take away the hassle or driving your kids somewhere, maintaining multiple vehicles for multiple family members etc. I'd bet that it does take off. Public transport doesn't solve groceries or other types of shopping though even in highly connected cities, especially for people with health problems or just aging ones.

Imagine a parent today driving to work and dropping off their two kids at school on the way. Instead of one car making three stops, you're suggesting three robo taxis would accomplish the same thing. What do you think already clogged roads would look like in this future? The only scalable solution is public transit, walking, and cycling.

I used to live in Germany, which had lots of excellent public transit, walking, and cycling. There was still quite a bit of car traffic. If even Germany's public transport isn't enough to eliminate cars, then we should put some effort into improving car transport, in addition to whatever we do with buses and bike lanes.

To that end, I'm not convinced automation will make things worse.

If the kid's school is near the parent's route to work, there's nothing stopping the parent from saving money by taking the kid in the same taxi.

If the kid's school is in the opposite direction, then a separate robotaxi can be more efficient. What matters is total system mileage. If a robotaxi takes the kid, then picks up a commuter starting near the school, then we save the parent's trip from the school back to their starting point.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#659

Post by frognumber »

tonygiorgio wrote: post #203

Just about the only open part about OpenAI is how their dirty laundry is constantly out in the open.

I think one issue is this highlights is how despicable all these individuals are.

The way I read this: Elon Musk wanted OpenAI to commit fraud. They refused. He went away. They decided to commit the same fraud. He sued.

They're a strong case in both directions. There's a legal principle that you can't take opposing views on the same legal issue.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#660

Post by ben_w »

Nullabillity wrote: post #649
ben_w wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farming existed before the combine harvester, and like the combine harvester LLMs are very useful tools in these tasks. You can't get a useful response from German for Dummies if you ask it to rate the email you're writing in German and let you know what needs improvement, human teachers who can are expensive, and friends may not wish to be constantly bothered by a 40 year old asking the kinds of questions a native s…

As a new language learner you're, by definition, not going to be in a place to judge the quality of the "feedback" you get from it.

Course not. I can make the judgement call "this is good at German" by virtue of all the Germans around me using it.

(Conversely, I'm told it's quite bad at, say, Chinese — though mainly by people online, as there aren't many native Chinese speakers in my life right now).

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