Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#651

Post by sgerenser » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:40 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #586

elric wrote: post #90

I'm always a bit confused by profitable companies with (presumably) large reserves laying off lots of people. I get that they want to remain profitable. But sure 500ish people could be put to some use? A new product, a new market, a spinoff. Whatever? Are you telling me that no one in such a big, wealthy company of clever engineers has any use for a bunch of talented people?

Interestingly enough, I once worked at a company that saw how huge amounts of money could be made taking the exact opposite approach. This all came about because this company had built a couple of hugely successful, and profitable, enterprise software products. So this company then decided to plow a ton of money into building out other products. The company was also pretty famous for having a high employee bar, and t…

Was the company Computer Associates (now part of the Broadcom conglomerate)? Sounds exactly like their playbook.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by xeromal » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:41 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #617

Brystephor wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only mortgages that don't require cashflow are the paid off mortgages. Even if someone has a year of savings, or two years, or three, after that amount is drained, they need cash flow again. So how does one buy a house without being dependent on cash flow?

Well the most obvious approach would be to pay cash. The more fiscally conservative option is to only borrow money if you have capital which is earning income at a higher rate than the mortgage. This probably necessitates having more capital than the house costs.

The problem with that is that unless you have an extremely well paying job or rich parents, you have to outsave inflation and rising house prices. You may never own. Getting a loan just locks you into an inflation proof price as a "forced" savings. I don't think it's realistic at all for 85% of Americans to save for a new house.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by xeromal » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

dixie_land wrote: post #578

wbl wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoid lifestyle creep! I have to say I'm bad at this myself: somehow it all adds up, while each individual expense doesn't look so bad.

Exactly, I feel a lot of my coworkers fell under this trap: if you need cashflow for mortgage on your 4m mansion in (affluent neighborhood), you can't really afford it.

I make a decent salary as a programmer (150k) but my house only cost 250k and my mortgage is about 1400. How I see it, if I have to flip burgers to keep my house, I can pull it off. I can't imagine have a mortgage that's 10gs a month.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

sosodev wrote: post #552

seneca wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no pleasing some people. Companies make cuts and don't give generous packages, they're evil. They give a package and it's just so they can dodge scrutiny. This kind of no-win complaining is tiresome.

Obviously the win is not laying people off. It's no secret that tech companies have not been hiring for sustainability and that sucks.

> Obviously the win is not laying people off.

All you are arguing for is that Dropbox should never have hired these people in the first place. Why is that better? At least these people got some years of high pay, experience, networking relationships, etc. Obviously it's disruptive, and it could be a big net negative for people who maybe jumped ship from more stable jobs only to be quickly laid off, but that's not the broad experience.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by cruffle_duffle » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:42 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #504

cruffle_duffle wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COBRA is the single largest expense for departing employees. Life pro tip: Do not use COBRA!!!!! It is almost always much, much cheaper to find an ACA compliant healthcare plan on your state's health insurance market. For one thing the plans will often be cheaper (though with fewer features). For another ACA plans qualify for tax credits, etc and COBRA doesn't. When I got laid off I made one of the worst financial…

Forget ACA compliant health plans. When I was laid off, since my income / week was $0 (Oregon), we just got medicaid for my kids, and pregnant wife, and I paid an extremely modest amount for a solid plan. There is no reason to use COBRA. It's a relic and probably should be done away with.

> It's a relic and probably should be done away with.

This is the conclusion I came away with as well. It made sense back before there was the public health insurance marketplace.

...but I tell you what there was nobody out there who told me "hey, revisit your health insurance" and it cost me a non-trivial amount of real money to learn that lesson!

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by dvngnt_ » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #564

njtransit wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

Avoid lifestyle creep! I have to say I'm bad at this myself: somehow it all adds up, while each individual expense doesn't look so bad.

like kids?

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by ozim » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #626

mrthrowaway999 wrote: post #583

I'm sad to see so much venom in these comments. HN of old would have tried to delve into the details and find something to learn from this.

I think the real learning here is that the company is still around even though they are sort of not in the popular zeitgeist at all anymore and there are so many other tools that does what they do.

It is still around even if as a Linux user I can get ftp server and mount it locally then use CVS or SVN … ;)

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by itsoktocry » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:43 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #612

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done Do you have any evidence of this? There are unfounded claims of “productivity metrics” but I have never actually seen one. E: I realize this is a poor choice of words after saying productivity metrics don’t exist. What I mean is my tasks are easier to complete in a WFH environment than they are…

>I have been far more productive from home.

Same. It's been a boon for me, and I genuinely enjoy my work, so it's win win. But anecdotally, I know people who abuse it.

On net, remote work is a plus: less commute, less pollution etc etc. And even the abusers, it's not like those people were highly productive in the office, I'm sure.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#659

Post by teractiveodular » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:44 PM UTC

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

FYI, Dropbox does not merely allow remote work, it's a fully remote-first company. There's a couple of offices for get-togethers and a few people physically staffing data centers, but everybody else works wherever they want to.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

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Post by pc86 » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:48 PM UTC

slater wrote: post #646

pc86 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should also be some reasonable government provided safety net There is, it's called Medicaid.

They said reasonable, not "endlessly-patched-up nonsense that conservatives want to gut at every turn"

I feel like "Medicaid could be better" is a statement everyone can agree on, but my point stands that the meme that US healthcare is some Mad Max apocalyptic wasteland where you're completely on your own and left to die in the street is categorically false.

Not a single person in the US is denied healthcare based on inability to pay.