Unconditional Cash Study: first findings available

> Think about this: Never before in history did you have the chance to rely entirely upon the effort of others for your basic human needs. In almost no other country on earth can you survive with most of your needs met just because you happen to live there, even if you‘re not born there. This is insane privilege.

Let's flip it upside down: never before[1] in history could you be bared from earning your food from your own work, and same for housing. That's the entire reason why people need welfare: there's no berries or roots to harvest, no game to hunt, no fields to farm, no vacant lot to build your house on with the help of your family and friends. All of this is behind the control of the gatekeepers who own the means of subsistence. The modern world is a prison in that regard.

> Nope, sorry. You‘re saying this from a privileged western perspective.

No, you misread me: barely nobody with your or my standard of living would voluntarily adopt this lifestyle. You act as if the ability not to work was a luxury that made all this worthwhile, but the truth is almost nobody ever voluntarily leave the wage-slavery state to take advantage of this luxury. Why that in your opinion?

> I‘m not comparing humans of the past, I‘m comparing it with the huge majority of people living on earth, right now. A person living on German welfare is so far removed from the average poor Afghan farmer, people in Favelas living in poverty , Ethiopians living under warlord rule or even the average poor person in the US they might as well be royalty

As I said in another thread, you cannot compare struggle between regions of the world or time periods, because all the poor people in the world today have access to things even royalty couldn't dream about. Infant death in Afghanistan (45/1000) is comparable to the level in Germany in the 50s and is roughly a tens of European infant mortality until the beginning of 19th century. Even in royal families, child death were consistently a terrible problem for millennia. And that's a problem that's almost non-existent in today Afghanistan. Same for food, as famine as disappeared almost everywhere in the world and people in Favelas have access to food in a diversity and quality (both in taste and in food safety) that would make aristocrats from the past in awe. Does that mean that Afghan farmers and people in Favelas are not struggling by your definition?

> Skipping meals is not routine, that‘s untrue as well. We have soup kitchens here. I’ve been there myself as a poor student.

Please read the massive literature about how many people refuse to go there even when it's close to their home (it's not always, especially in suburban or rural places) because they're “worth more than this”.

> It‘s supposed to have you meet your basic human needs. We give our people so much more than that. Public schooling, free access to public pools, additional housing money in cities, free internet for people on welfare, and a car.

You fail to realize how almost all of these (that is, everything except access to public pools) can be basic human needs in modern societies: schools are a no-brainer of course and I really don't understand how you can put it in your list, but so is housing. Cars and internet connection are only necessities because we shaped the world around it, but here's the world we live in: internet is basically mandatory for many government-related stuff and so are cars when you don't live in cities. Locking people out of the normal world isn't a rational move no matter how “morally good” it sounds. (Also, since I can't find it easily on the web, does welfare in Germany genuinely provide access to a car? That sounds really clever actually, because the lack of mobility is a huge blocker for people to get back to the job market once they've lost access to a car here in France, and we are subsidizing people who are practically stuck without opportunity to get a job which is a terrible policy).

[1] at least not before the “enclosure movement” in Britain in the early modern period, where this madness came from.

> You really need to build up empathy and open your eyes to the world, look at them, listen to their stories and you'll hear the struggle

I do and I have empathy. Everyone has their own struggles. I see no reason why welfare should reduce struggle to zero.

> the constant fear of being sanctioned because they did something deemed “wrong” by the administration, is one easy example.

Bürgergeld was introduced to deal with these restrictions and even if it's now appended form is still less restrictive than Hartz IV ever was.

> The contradictory requirements they need to meet.

I'm afraid this is just German inefficiency and beurocracy in disguise.

> you need to comply with rules in order to get your benefits, but one day your old car break and you cannot afford to repair it, but you also cannot comply anymore without it and risk losing money

I would be very interested in these rules, because last time I googled, the Arbeitsamt supplies a car if you need it with up to 15k Eur in value.

> It's about having no food left in the fridge 3 days before you get your benefits and cannot buy new before it comes in.

Again, we have food and soup kitchens. I've been there myself. You just have to get over your internal self inflicted shame. There is nothing to be ashamed of when you're going there and the staff there were nothing but friendly, if a little stressed last time I went.

> Everyone has their story, and they are depressing. But to accept that those struggles are real, you need to make the effort of looking at it.

I know those struggles are real. But more often enough, we do have ways to deal with them.

> You are the one asking “how are those people struggling?”, it's easy to assume people don't struggle when it's not directly visible.

As I see it, most of those struggles are either self inflicted due to shame or rise from missing knowledge on how to navigate the system when you're in need.

> In a way you are telling me that the people I've witnessed, don't exist!

They certainly do exist. But there are solutions for almost every one of their problems. You just have to work together with the people at the Arbeitsamt, which many don't.

No one has to go hungry or cold in Germany and I stand by this firmly.

> Let's flip it upside down: never before[1] in history could you be bared from earning your food from your own work, and same for housing. That's the entire reason why people need welfare: there's no berries or roots to harvest, no game to hunt, no fields to farm, no vacant lot to build your house on with the help of your family and friends. All of this is behind the control of the gatekeepers who own the means of subsistence. The modern world is a prison in that regard.

This is a false equivalence. There are odd-jobs now like they were in the past, with much better benefits. There are two classes of people on welfare: Those wo can't work and those who could but don't, for whatever reason. The first class couldn't work hunter or gathering jobs in the past and the second class would be forced to do so out of necessity. The modern world is not a prison for these people, but instead provides a cushion for our nation's weakest. These people wouldn't have had the opportunities you state. They would have just died instead.

> No, you misread me: barely nobody with your or my standard of living would voluntarily adopt this lifestyle.

I agree entirely. 95% of the world's population do not have our standard of living. Which is why they try to migrate into the west. Even European countries with the lowest standards of welfare provide lifestyles and opportunities that seem like luxury to poor people from all over the world.

> You act as if the ability not to work was a luxury that made all this worthwhile, but the truth is almost nobody ever voluntarily leave the wage-slavery state to take advantage of this luxury. Why that in your opinion?

You are correct, they don't and that is not my opinion of European natives. But people leave the state of real slavery and spend their entire life savings with hopes to cross over into the West. Europe will have to protect the standards of welfare like Denmark already does, if we want to keep benefits up to standard for the people who are already here.

> Does that mean that Afghan farmers and people in Favelas are not struggling by your definition?

Of course not, they just struggle differently.

> Please read the massive literature about how many people refuse to go there even when it's close to their home (it's not always, especially in suburban or rural places) because they're “worth more than this”.

That struggle is entirely self-made and quite frankly, not the problem of the Government. Opportunities are readily available. There is no shame in going to a soup kitchen. I had the same sentiment in the past, went there, and dropped any prejudice, because I was hungry.

> You fail to realize how almost all of these (that is, everything except access to public pools) can be basic human needs in modern societies

You would think, but this even the richest country on the earth doesn't provide good schooling to poor children.

> internet is basically mandatory for many government-related stuff

This made me laugh. It's still Germany we're talking about.

> Also, since I can't find it easily on the web, does welfare in Germany genuinely provide access to a car

We do. More often than not, if the Government deems that you don't need a car, you're granted free public transport. I've made use of this system. It was fine.

> because the lack of mobility is a huge blocker for people to get back to the job market

I'd wager the largest blocker for people to get back into the job market is that wages haven't kept up with welfare costs. There is an incredibly sharp drop off point for welfare benefits. For most people able of only unskilled labor, there is a loss of money if they start working at minimum wage level.

We have failed our immigration efforts because of a couple of factors, one of which being the availability of welfare benefits. I know how this sounds, but it's true. Compared to other European nations, for example, only about every fifth Ukranian refuge has found work here. Poland, which does not provide a lot of welfare for refugees, has seen a working rate of 70% in the same group. This problem is twofold however, refugees by and large benefit from unskilled labour and manufacturing, work which is rare to come by in Germany.

I'm not saying we should lower benefits. The only possibility I see is an increase of wages, which by and large isn't really possible in Germany; our infrastructure and global economic competitiveness is declining. The job market is in a dire situation right now and jobs opportunities are getting less available each day. Germany is in a catastrophic state right now and there's no solution. We have a fast aging population, rising inflation, housing, and food costs and too few workers.

> You would think, but this even the richest country on the earth doesn't provide good schooling to poor children.

Interesting to see how the topic you know the best (from your GF as I understand it) is exactly the one where government isn't doing enough. You see what I mean by TV giving you wrong impressions on topics you're less familiar with …

The problem is that I'm not talking about getting +1300 EUR/month situations, but about +300 EUR/month situations. And suddenly you have to explain your finances to the bureaucracy and... you still have to earn +1000 EUR/month in addition to the bureaucracy needed so you get to keep at least some of it (without committing social security fraud, ofc).

It's not that bad if it's steady; but if it's fluctuating you easily spend a couple hours each month. And for at least some people, that type of work is far worse than their occupation of choice.