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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to living in a society. If OpenAI didn't offer high compensation, then it wouldn't have been able to attract the talent that it did. Feel free to run your company off of Doge coin donations from EA orgs if you like. But personally, I don't think anyone would have been able to make the frontier models that OpenAI did even if SBF himself funded the whole thing. To actually succeed in the space you need money, t…

OpenAI's stated goal wasn't just to develop AGI by any means necessary, so why are you using that as a criteria?

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The board is working with the assumption the CEO isn’t a liar. Altman is a classic sociopath, a T-1000 to Musk’s clunky T-800. OpenAI is fated to implode in scandal. His 7 trillion dollar funding round ambition is a blaring siren to anyone with a working brain that he’s out of control and capable of doing real damage. He wants a sum of money that could crash the world economy. He thinks he should have the power of th…

Just to be clear - Musk’s crimes are single-handedly turning the US into the leader in EV and space industries, calling one guy a „pedo” and standing trial for it, and supporting the political side that you don’t like?

The US dominance in EV is about to be eaten up by the Chinese, and Musk is in the process of making the company implode, e.g. the cybertruck failure.

The US was already a leader in aerospace, by a lot.

He called someone a pedo who didn't deserve it on Twitter, and then bought and managed to tank said platform, to the point where it is the go-to for nazis and propagandists.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#653
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are hoarding wealth. They do have Scrooge McDuck cash vaults. (Look for them under "real estate holdings" as a starting place.) The fact is they have enough money to have Scrooge McDuck cash vaults AND ALSO invest a shitload of money. History also shows us that sooner or later, unbounded wealth disparity ends poorly for the wealthy. I hope we can find a way forward without that "solution" happening here. You can…

> "real estate holdings" Real estate is not cash. It's cash spent . > History also shows us that sooner or later, unbounded wealth disparity ends poorly for the wealthy. History also shows us that societies without wealth disparity end up poorly for everyone . As in starving. > You can have big business without robber barons. Excellent. Go ahead and build one, compete and put Scrooge McDuck out of business.

> Real estate is not cash. It's cash spent.

No, it's an asset only barely less liquid than cash, generally deliberately shelved in a holding company for the exact purpose of hoarding wealth. You have fallen for the bullshit.

> History also shows us that societies without wealth disparity end up poorly for everyone. As in starving.

You left out "unbounded." Deliberate misinterpretation or failure to comprehend? We'll never know. Wealth disparity will always exist. Unbounded wealth disparity is a symptom of a corruptable system.

> Excellent. Go ahead and build one, compete and put Scrooge McDuck out of business.

I already have built one, and I'm quite comfortable, thanks. Putting competitors out of business isn't part of the game plan for sustainable success. Unbounded growth doesn't benefit me past meeting my financial goals. You've once again missed the entire point of my post.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#654
post #582

> It’s come out that he was actually fired from his previous job at Y Combinator, which was hushed up at the time. What is that referring to?

He used to be the president of YC for a few years.

Thanks. Until now I thought he still holds that title. Good job with the "hushed up at the time" I guess.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#655

"We are disappointed that Ms. Toner continues to revisit these issues. An independent committee of the board worked with the law firm Wilmer Hale, to conduct an extensive review of the events of November." It's interesting that the review was never published and no comments from the review were mentioned. The "summary" here[1] only reveals a list of things they did and the least possible endorsement of Altman. "Wilme…

Don't worry. It wouldn't matter if they released the report. These law firms are charged to find nothing and say nothing. MIT agreed to have a report from a law firm after having secret dealings with Epstein. The law firm very carefully managed to avoid every issue that wasn't already known and every question people actually wanted answers to.

It’s like one of those logic problems isn’t it; if what you say is true (and it likely is) then why hasn’t the report been released? It likely contains information that even at the fantastic fees WilmerHale charge couldn’t be skirt around.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#656
post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term natural right since ancient times was a religious construct that has little or nothing to do with the modern, post-Renaissance understanding of the term, so tracing a lineage here is a definitional error. In any case, what a natural right is isn't (and cannot be) a well established term, and indeed the rise in atheism is a fundamental threat to the doctrine, as most all ideas of natural law have to rely on a…

God is of very little help (here), as pointed by Plato/Socrates in the Uthyphro dilemma. The naturalistic fallacy is not limited to natural rights, as Hume's is-ought is applicable to legal rights just the same - you can't logically deduce from the fact that there are laws that mandate rights a conclusion that one ought to abide by them. Natural or universal rights does not require theism. Robert Nozick is famous pro…

Natural rights do really require theism to be truly natural, ie, independent of morality and society. Theism avoids the is-ought problem by forgoing the ought, with theism natural law can simply be, and whether you decide you ought to abide them is no longer so important.

Nozick's position on the existence natural rights is simply not grounded. He appeals to intuition and to the reader's morality to appeal for their existence, but he doesn't (and cannot) actually deduce their existence once he forgoes theism. He makes a few appeals to Kant, but they obviously cannot be sufficient, Kant's conditions are merely necessary. I'm very confused by your reference to Nozick on a discussion about the grounding of natural rights when Nozick himself admits that he cannot justify them - he simply assumes Locke, which himself uses a theistic argument, in ASU. If you want, I can get the quote, but I don't have time to skim it until I'm home from work.

At the end of the day, secular natural rights is an intuitive and appealing but ungrounded position that cannot be logically justified, hence why it is threatened by theism. It is no wonder that positive rights and social right theory only really emerged after the Renaissance.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#657
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This precisely correct. The board hires & fires the CEO. End of story. When the board is unhappy how the company is being run, their recourse is to...fire the CEO. What is unusual here is the wellspring of support from "the troops", such that if they stuck with their firing the CEO, there would be hardly any company left to be BoD of! The board didn't understand the depth of employee allegiance to sama.

I saw a claim at the time that a handful of employees rallied everyone else to sign the letter and post support on Twitter. Between that and Altman reportedly having a vindictive streak, I'm thinking the actual employee support was paper-thin.

Prisoner's dilemma and/or social pressure when million in profit share units hang in the balance. Joining MS was a way to stop their compensation being at risk by being stuck on a sinking ship

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#658

Classic NPD behavior from the sound of it (triangulating board members, lying/withholding, etc). Wouldn't be surprised if the return was predicated by promises to do/be better or extreme gaslighting. Worth people studying the disorder and learning to spot it—can save you a lot of trouble.

What does it mean to triangulate people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4knTxthuI

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#659
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your right not be attacked is based on morality The very first thing a group does when organized is to protect themselves from attack. They do this because it works. We've evolved that way, which makes it a law of nature for humans. Communist rights, however, are not laws of nature because they do not work with humans. Humans are not beehives. But the most compelling argument for "natural rights" is observing how w…

Of course you defend yourself and your kind from harm. But that is completely separate from the fact if it is allowed. There is no law in nature preventing this. Sometimes internal conflict is solved by violence and accepted. Your first paragraph describes a group sharing a common will and organisation based on natural instinct (like a hive of bees), your second paragraph disputes this organisation as a group for hum…

> decide for one it can’t be both ways

Oh, it can be both ways and is both ways. See my last sentence again, about the compelling evidence that humans thrive with their rights being protected, while a beehive thrives from being a perfect communist society.

Communism requires people to behave like bees in a beehive, and that will never work no matter how fervently one believes in communism and no matter how much coercion is used to force people to be good communists.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#660
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cool technology" here means things like dishwashers, or MRI machines, which pretty much strictly improve people's lives, not slightly better advertisement algorithms.

I don't think you need to be an asshole to invent a dishwasher or an MRI machine. The usefulness alone lets you sell these. AI on the other hand...

For sure. I think I expressed myself poorly; I very much do not think being an asshole is a necessity for cool technology.

I do think that "cool technology" such as dishwashers and MRI machines is a virtue and we're better of with those than without.

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