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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

651–660 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#651
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equally abohorrent Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled. I'd be interested to hear what's equally ab…

The wall wasn’t always there. Just like how the wall trump put between US and Mexico wasn’t always there. Actions have consequences and the West Bank situation regressed from continued suicide bombing and terrorist attackers.

Actions certainly do have consequences, like roughly forty years prior to the wall's construction, arbitrary "military orders" that post-occupation immediately granted the military total authority over every aspect of Palestinian life, declared all water to be the property of Israel, and that land could be seized for any reason - and more which have since made it illegal to do nearly anything without the authorization of the military, which includes everything from planting flowers to doing anything related to water to groups larger than 10 people assembling to attending school to operating a tractor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Order

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#652
post #210

I have no skin in this game. What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October. Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

Provoking an overreaction was the intention... and yet that is not factored into the criticism.

they let it happen

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I could not confirm your claim that Hamas called for murdering Jews globally. Could you please share a source? My feeling is that media controlled by people - like TikTok - tend to be pro-Palestinian, whereas media controlled by institutions tend to be pro-Israeli (with the exception of the majority of ONGs and human right organizations). > it gets amplified by 1.8 billion people whose holy book calls for attacks on…

> media controlled by people - like TikTok

If you think TikTok (or Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit etc..) are 'controlled by people' I have a bridge to sell you.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#654

I've been watching Project Ask recently: https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded: Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible. I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (m…

> Sadly, I think we are going to continue with the one state with Apartheid The situation is not like Apartheid in South Africa. In Apartheid, the white minority controlled South Africa, and did things like denying the black majority the vote. In contrast, Israel has a ~20% Arab minority (excluding Gaza and West Bank). The rights of that minority are respected. Arabs can vote in Israel, and in fact there is an Arab p…

> In contrast, Israel has a ~20% Arab minority (excluding Gaza and West Bank).

I'm reminded of an anecdote (probably false) of when someone was asked in an interview why all manhole covers are round. He replied that not all manhole covers are round. They countered "Well, just consider the round ones".

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#655
post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a very clear, narrow lens on the issue. Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza. I say this because any other way is a can of worms. How did Hamas come into power? What are its goals? What have they promised to do to accomplish those objectives? Their goals are of malicious intent, and they have demonstrated that they're willing to do anything to accomplish the…

Re: "Let's also separate Palestinian civilians from those exerting power unto them in Gaza" - I do not think you can. A lot of Palestinians are radicalized. What do you think a father who lost his kids in an airstrike will do next? Or a brother who lost his sister / brother? Do you think these people will care about rule of law, or turn the other cheek, etc...? Re: "any other way is a can of worms". I agree with this…

I can tell you exactly how I would react if someone were to do something to my daughter, which is the biggest source of joy to me right now.

So what exactly is your solution then? To create 10-20 times the suffering that has led to the growth of Hamas to begin with?

But let's say, for the sake of the argument, that that line of reasoning is justified, which for the record, I don't think it is. How does that then justify the violence, and the killings happening in the West Bank? How does it justify shooting Palestinians in the US?

Nobody here wants to hear it, but the only country that has gotten a hold of its Islamist terrorism problem without mass bombing is China. And contrary to what people in the US like to hear the Organization of Islamic Cooperation which comprises dozens of Muslim countries, have praised Chinas efforts to build infrastructure and schools. The US shouts about Uyghur rights all the time and then bombs them the moment they hang out with the Taliban for training[1].

Even the guy who came up with the Uyghur genocide says that the people working in the factories are treated well, and yet that's somehow a bad thing[2].

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighu...

[2] https://twitter.com/adrianzenz/status/1732406580623098274

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

I suspect you ignore the history of terrorism by Irgun and the bombing of the King David Hotel, which house the British military command. Menachem Begin was a key player in that attack & was extremely proud of it. Who are the modern day parties following in those footsteps? Why Likud, & Begin was a co-founder of that very party— now led by Netanyahu.

I wasn't ignorant of it - that's why I said "any modern Israeli party". I'm aware past Israeli/Zionist groups have engaged in terrorism and in some cases deliberate civilian massacres. As far as I know Likud hasn't within the past 50 years.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#657
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a long list of Israeli politicians and military officers who have declared their intent to massacre civilians: - Israeli Prime Minister (!!) Benjamin Netanyahu: "You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember." [1] - IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari: "we're focused on what causes maximum damage" [2] - Israeli defense Minister Yoav Gallant: "I have ordered a complete siege on…

Hagari was not speaking about massacring civilians. He was talking about damage to Hamas/military targets. He did say that Israel is biased towards more damage vs. accuracy. This is very propaganda. I've been following the conflict pretty closely and I speak Hebrew. The parent is correct, there is and was no order to massacre civilians. It's probably safe to say that protecting Palestinian civilians is not Israel's m…

Your argument fundamentally boils down to, "oops". I think we can apply a little more critical thinking than that. Most military folk know better than to say the quiet part out loud.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#658
post #529

Can you imagine that all it took for her to lose her job was "“Freedom for Palestine”. That's the insanity about this whole thing. The Zionists don't believe Palestine nor the Palestinians deserve a homeland while many Jews believe they do. Zionism is an incredibly powerful entity that even brought Musk to his knees. That's the real story here..... Just saying....

> Can you imagine that all it took for her to lose her job was "“Freedom for Palestine”. Which she said after Israel was a victim of a terrorist attack. Quite tone deaf, no?

Tell me do you think the Palestinians deserve their own country?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine, a stance that is reflected in numerous UN General Assembly votes. Holding a pro-Israel position in this context represents a very US centric view, which is not similarly echoed in the rest of the world.

> The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine The majority of the global ruling class is for Israel's occupation of Palestine. History is incomprehensible if we ignore class conflict.

Can you define who the global ruling class is?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“If you have no skin in the game, don’t comment”. I’m sorry, people who aren’t Jewish or Palestinians are not allowed to have opinions on this? I’m sorry, but Israel can’t just pull out their “anti-Semite” card at will and do what they want without the world reacting. The Israeli government - like any government - can make mistakes. And can be criticized. Criticizing the government is in no way anti-Semitic. To belie…

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