Earlier quoted context omitted.
So then alcohol should be banned? Why the line if only historical?
Yes, it should.
Remember last time we tried that? It was not good...
Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
651–660 of 1001 posts
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#652Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't agree. Germany for example is pretty shameless beyond the shame border in USA. To give you a few maybe extreme examples (which does not apply to all people in Germany and not all this examples are sexual): Mixed saunas, swinger clubs, open relationships, no shame on being naked in designated nudity areas, topless DJs, a naked women is not a big skandal etc. Yet Germany does not have the drug problems which Or…
Being ashamed about nudity is i beieve a totally different thing. The shame op is talking about is feeling bad when you have cheated your neighbours, or being ashamed of doing something that lands you in jail i.e. caring about your reputation as a good human. Nudity in public is completely orthogonal to any of that imho, and is more of a cultural norm.
total nudity is in relation to reputation to being as a good human for many US Americans.
Of course there is also some value in your proposition but saying that a society is totally shameless yet keeps cultural norms very high (like USA with nudity) does contradict the initial claim. It's something else then.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#653The USA and a few other cultures have unfortunately devalued shame to the point where it holds nearly no cultural power. Shame is an important aspect of behaviour moderation, a negative emotion usefully experienced when doing something that breaks the social contract. Devaluing shame instad of targeting the parts of the contract that needed to be changed has cost us a critical tool for self moderation and has created…
How old are you?
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#654Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is good shame and bad shame. If you murder someone, then you should rightly feel shame. If you are gay, then you should not feel shame. Shame can work both ways.
And if I want to know if I or my neighbor should be shamed for something, I just consult you, the oracle of shame?
I cant help but feel the golden rule gets you most of the way there, treat others as youd want to be treated. Of course tgere will still be gray areas on the edges, but debating whether you should beat someone for being gay shouldnt be an ethical conundrum.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#655Legalize hard drugs, but if are down to your bottom dollar because you can't use them responsibly then you lose some rights. Imagine a world where people are held accountable for their actions.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#656I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…
> Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. Yes. Claiming people can use these things without consequences is just wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never dealt with addicts. The only possible argument for drug decriminalization is getting rid of all the violent crime surrounding it. That's a worthy reason but must certainly be weighed against the significant…
Dealing with addicts is proof that all people who use drugs will become addicts?
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#657I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…
I fully support decriminalization of all drugs, as long as it's far away from me and from anybody else who is just trying to live their best life. Let's go build a 10-acre island that is full of free housing and free drugs for anybody who wants it.
Interesting, I feel the same way about MLM salespeople, Jordan Peterson fans, gun nuts, Elon Musk fans, and a whole other host of behaviors that are pretty objectively harmful.
Actually, I don't at all, but see how asinine it sounds?
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#658I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…
1. Licenses or prescriptions should be required for all drugs; either can be taken away. Also, people need education. 2. Start a better public works program. Employment is good for mental health. 3. Maybe require a month of service or something, just to have a way to resocialize people when they break. 4. Have people pick up their benefits somewhere not in the city. Some reason to move. 5. Forced rehab to those engag…
I'd vote for you.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#659Earlier quoted context omitted.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein In a later comment you ask ...how should I provide help & compassion? I would say one-on-one as an individual walking the streets, you probably shouldn't, especially if you have children in tow. We need to address our nationwide affordable housing crisis. California is disproportionately impacted and takes a lot of th…
I agree with you for the most part. There is a massive housing cost crisis. I bought my house 5 years ago for $320k and its worth just under $600k now. For the same house. It makes no sense. Plus its not like I can sell it and get 2 more at the original price. I don't know how entry level salary people could even consider home ownership now. I don't think decriminalization of hard drugs works without an ample amount…
To be clear, I am not someone who thinks "bad behavior" just needs "sympathy and compassion." I'm absolutely not interested in creating a situation that endangers innocent bystanders in the name of feeling sorry for anyone.
I'm just someone who thinks drug use happens for a reason and doesn't get resolved with sheer self discipline. It gets resolved when the reason for using gets resolved.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#660The USA and a few other cultures have unfortunately devalued shame to the point where it holds nearly no cultural power. Shame is an important aspect of behaviour moderation, a negative emotion usefully experienced when doing something that breaks the social contract. Devaluing shame instad of targeting the parts of the contract that needed to be changed has cost us a critical tool for self moderation and has created…
I don't agree. Germany for example is pretty shameless beyond the shame border in USA. To give you a few maybe extreme examples (which does not apply to all people in Germany and not all this examples are sexual): Mixed saunas, swinger clubs, open relationships, no shame on being naked in designated nudity areas, topless DJs, a naked women is not a big skandal etc. Yet Germany does not have the drug problems which Or…
You’re giving examples of where the German social norms allow things that are taboo under US social norms. That’s not what shame is about. Shame is a feeling that societies use to enforce social norms and taboos—whatever those norms happen to be.
America is a very individualistic society—people can violate social norms and they don’t feel shame, because they say “who cares what other people think?” My impression of Germany—which is second hand, my wife lived there and I know lots of Germans—is that it is a less individualistic society. Society might allow certain things, but where society doesn't allow those things, there is strong shame-based social pressure.
At least when my wife was living in east Germany in the early 2000s, drug use was one of those taboos. When she mentioned smoking marijuana—something that didn’t raise eyebrows among other teenagers at her rural Iowa high school—the reaction from German students was very negative.