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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#651

Post by kortilla »

ninepoints wrote: post #444
bybybyby wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Considering Elon an "effective leader" is certainly a take.

Considering him not is pretty dumb given the success of two independent companies under his leadership (spacex and tesla). Under his leadership both companies went from nothing to successful.

You can claim that all of the success is due to the other execs at those companies, but they are still his choices following his leadership. He has the power to fire any of them so they are clearly doing what he wants.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#652

Post by passion__desire »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #586
bradleyjg wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s chatgpt: —- My decision to leave was driven by witnessing the negative impact on JeanHeyd resulting from the actions taken by Rust. The situation raised concerns about the treatment and the breach of trust that occurred. It made me reflect on the role I played in the development of the system and whether I want to continue to be associated with it. —- No weeping, no histrionic claims of betrayal.

That’s actually very good

"I decided to depart after recognizing the profound sense of disillusionment and dissatisfaction JeanHeyd experienced due to perceived unfair treatment and deception. The depth of this unfairness, reaching a level that I perceived as unjust, deeply resonated with me. This situation highlighted a need for better communication and understanding within the community, prompting my decision to step back. I express my deepest regret over these circumstances, and I sincerely hope for improvements in our conduct and interactions going forward."

-- another version by ChatGPT

Re: Why I Left Rust

#653

Post by kortex »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #276
bruce343434 wrote: post #183

As a non-american I must say I don't understand where the latter half of the article comes from. Why care about race? Why must a racist reason be sought behind everything?

[flagged]

Well, the Associated Press style guide squarely disagrees with you.

Not having a label for something makes it really difficult to talk about issues around that subject. How am I supposed to advocate for a group of people who have it rough, specifically for their skin color, if I can't use the term for their skin color?

https://blackvoicenews.com/2020/06/17/black-with-a-capital-b...

Re: Why I Left Rust

#654

Post by busterarm »

calibas wrote: post #615
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the fact that he was black is a non-factor here, and shouldn't even be mentioned.

Why? Am I to believe the Rust leadership is so enlightened they're incapable of racial discrimination? There's a reason people don't want to talk about racism, and it's not because it doesn't exist anymore...

I mean...it's not like Rust leadership didn't have a prominent member who loudly advocated ideas like "kill all men", right?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#656

Post by busterarm »

quotemstr wrote: post #305
paddw wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole exchange feels off. Essentially, the underlying spat is over a strong technical disagreement, but it is being prosecuted in this weirdly stylized language of emotion and abuse. I have no idea how something like this can be overcome so long as the core Rust community feels this is an acceptable way to handle things. Clearly this is something which extends beyond the immediate leadership team.

We've deprived a whole generation of the rhetorical tools for healthy, impersonal and professional argument. It's no wonder that they've pressed this "stylized language of emotion and abuse" into service to fill the void: it's all they know.

Skins are luxuriously thin these days, yeah.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#657

Post by shrimp_emoji »

parabyl wrote: post #128
chillbill wrote: post #79

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will. I read through the original blog post from JeanHeyd[1] and in no way do they mention anything related to being a person of color, why then does JT associate it with that? I have no idea about the inner workings of the rust leadership team and who they are even, but from the timeline described and from the original post, there's nothing the could be related to that. Jean…

I think moreso than specifically meaning JeanHeyd was target as such due to race, the implication was rather that since JeanHeyd had previously raised that the lack of diveristy in speakers at the conf. was an issue, some members voting on this may have held onto that. But, it's ironic (and sad) that the same person who raised the issue of diversity in speakers - who would have been the first PoC doing a keynote - wa…

PoC feeling like language from an era long past when

Re: Why I Left Rust

#658

Post by spangry »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #576
127 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in ones that are not based on merit and long term relationships.

Are there any communities that are really based on merit?

Pretty much every human community has to be to some extent, with the exception of communities that face no external competition. Non-meritorious communities subject to competition quickly disappear.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#659

Post by bennettnate5 »

mwcampbell wrote: post #272
talkingtab wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause and Effect. You say "Rust is great". Why? Because People who work together effectively created Rust. And people working together have created most of the other things that are great. So if you want Rust, better Rust or more Rusts, then you may want to care whether the Rust organization will continue to work together effectively. My 0.02 is that we live in a time where we are losing site of communities and focus…

Or maybe Rust is great because Graydon was (presumably still is) an exceptionally skilled language designer and implementor. An increased focus on individuals makes sense to me because advances in technology give individuals more power, and it makes sense to me to minimize the overhead of coordination by making the most of that power to accomplish greater things with fewer people.

Did Graydon write the Rust analyzer? Did Graydon personally pen all of the documentation (let alone the books and tutorials) that contribute to Rust's usability? Rust is great primarily because it has a community of contributors that all work in various fields of the language to make it what it is. The sheer volume of work that needed to be done to get Rust to where it is today could not be shouldered on the backs of a small collection of skilled individuals; coordination and collaboration is essential for a project like Rust.

You can find countless research papers out there that present a brilliant idea devised and implemented by a skilled individual that ultimately goes nowhere despite its merit. Skilled individuals still need community to expand their work to the scope that will allow the idea to really shine.

(Note this is not meant to minimize Graydon's contributions to Rust's success, but to highlight the general principle that ideas require a community to grow into greatness)

Re: Why I Left Rust

#660

Post by Larrikin »

n8henrie wrote: post #549
Larrikin wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is there a similarly succinct but inoffensive word or phrase you would recommend instead?

The term at this point is so twisted that your question is like asking if there a similarly succinct word one can use for the N word. Looking for an alternative that means the same thing is incompatible with it being inoffensive
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