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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

missionlocal.org

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#651

Post by tqi »

iudqnolq wrote: post #621
sowbug wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrests sure better be public record in a free country.

The UK is a good example of a generally* similarly free country without guaranteed public access to arrest records. This balances the potential benefit to the public from knowing against the definite harm to the accused. (*There are definitely significant ways each is less free than the other and there's no rigorous way to say which is worse)

I think the person you're replying to is saying that:

- If a government arrests someone, it should be forced to acknowledge both that it happened AND give the reason for arrest

- Media should have the right to report on arrests, without interference from the government.

This protects from abuses of power against for example political opponents. Of course, these same laws make arrests for common crimes problematic for the people being arrested. And I don't think it is feasible to codify an objective line between the two.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#652

Post by selfmodruntime »

zenkat wrote: post #590
dmode wrote: post #323

Am I the only one who does NOT feel unsafe in SF at all ? I mean, I choose not to walk in TL and SOMA at night. But why would anyone feel unsafe in North Beach, Marina, Russian Hill, Richmond, Sunset, GG park, Lower Haight, Valencia etc. I have spent many nights walking in Valencia and took Uber home at 2am. Doesn't feel remotely unsafe.

I've lived in SF for almost 30 years. I agree 100%. Sure, there's a lot more sad/ugly homelessness in the post-covid era. The shantytowns out by Candlestick are depressing. The Tenderloin continues to be a mess. But do I feel less safe? Absolutely not! The neighborhoods (where most people live) are just fine. I regularly walk home from the bars at midnight without a care. It's simply not a problem. Compare back to th…

So you only feel safe because you have the means / are affluent enough to avoid crime ridden areas?

That‘s not entirely fair.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#653

Post by microtherion »

pentagrama wrote: post #437
j4pe wrote: post #20

Joe Eskenazi, the author of this piece, is a solid journalist who helps run the tiny donation-funded Mission Local. They've done incredible reporting on corruption in the SF city government and punch way above their weight in the stories they break. I have respect for how Joe refused to join in reporting this murder as evidence of a violent crime epidemic, while still reporting on homelessness and property crime.

I'm in doubt if is ethical journalism reveal the name and LinkedIn profile of an alleged killer, sounds like doxing to me.

Given how heavily and uncritically the initial theory of a homeless/lower class person as the killer was promoted (not least of all here on HN), I think it made a lot of sense to reveal that the actual suspect now arrested worked in the tech industry and was acquainted with the victim.

Beyond that, it's nor clear to me that revealing the actual name or other personal details of the suspect serves a legitimate purpose of advancing justice or society; however, it is not out of keeping with journalistic practice in other criminal cases in California. Suspects' names get printed in newspapers for far lower profile crimes all the time.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#654

Post by bilbo0s »

kornhole wrote: post #626
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

I never believed the original assumption in stories. I am skeptical of what I read. Random murders are very rare. He was running a crypto company. Crypto space has plenty of shady things and people.

You would think the mass shootings of Asians would have taught us a lesson. But we all continue to jump the gun.

I think more generally, people are mob parrots at heart. We go with the crowd. If we see a guy killed and someone yells, "Crime Wave!!!" Well, then we all start chanting "Crime Wave!!!" The average person, even on HN as we saw, can really not be trusted to give dispassionate analysis. In the vast majority of instances, we just parrot whatever narrative or world view we feel most emotionally comfortable with.

I struggle mightily against it and still fall into that cesspool of intellectual laziness from time to time. It's just human. But you're right. We need to do better.

Much better.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#655

Post by drewda »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #567
virgildotcodes wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article specifically shows that violent crime in SF is at an all time low, and lower than most other comparably sized cities.

Didn't SF used to be freaking scary prior to blowing up? I've heard people talk about it like they do Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, ect. An undesirable place that washed up people ended up, riddled with crime and violence. I think I might be getting the story wrong, but I recall hearing there used to be much more crime.

A great read on that very topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_of_the_Witch:_Enchantme...

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#656

Post by deanCommie »

joering2 wrote: post #479
deanCommie wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hes not saying "I would like to report a murder and tell you who did it, their full name, and social security number" He's reporting his status and begging for help. He's thinking about survival. What do you expect to have said in his situation?

I was screaming the name of person that shot me, thinking if its the last thing I say, at least this son of a bitch will spend life in prison for it.

People like you confuse me.

I would be thinking about my family, my legacy.

Not some biblical sense of justice.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#657

Post by [deleted] »

j4pe wrote: post #20

Joe Eskenazi, the author of this piece, is a solid journalist who helps run the tiny donation-funded Mission Local. They've done incredible reporting on corruption in the SF city government and punch way above their weight in the stories they break. I have respect for how Joe refused to join in reporting this murder as evidence of a violent crime epidemic, while still reporting on homelessness and property crime.

[deleted]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#658

Post by sterlind »

kstenerud wrote: post #637
sowbug wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrests sure better be public record in a free country.

In Germany it's not public, nor are you allowed to publish the name of a person arrested. This is to protect the individual's privacy and shield them from public retribution and prejudice, which I think is a far more enlightened stance. In America, the stigma of an arrest follows you for the rest of your life.

if a politician is arrested on corruption charges, are you not allowed to name them? or if someone's spouse is arrested for their murder, you can't disclose it? or that the suspect is, say, a tech worker rather than a homeless person? how can you possibly cover high-profile crimes if you're not allowed to disclose facts about the suspects?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#659

Post by sbelskie »

v0idzer0 wrote: post #587
rhaway84773 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty obviously not. The answers are in the article. The police claims they were driving together. You don’t usually drive together with someone you don’t know late at night.

I mean Uber?

Reading the article is always an option.

> Rather, Lee and Momeni were portrayed by police as being familiar with one another. In the wee hours of April 4, they were purportedly driving together through downtown San Francisco in a car registered to the suspect.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#660

Post by squaresmile »

robocat wrote: post #36
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

Off-topic: That particular HN discussion contains many users creating a political narrative, and even at the time it was obvious there were many bad comments. I wish we had a way to downrank users that derail conversions with crap. Are there forums with better user moderation systems that boost ranking of quality comments and decrease ranking of comment noise? Something where I can systematically increase the ranking…

Avoid non-tech discussion here and you are almost all the way there. There's a chrome extension to block a user's comments. Probably not too hard to make one or modify it to highlight users you like.
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