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We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

githubcopilotlitigation.com

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Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#651

Post by kmeisthax »

njharman wrote: post #409
Cort3z wrote: post #270

I’m not a lawyer, but here is why I believe a class action lawsuit is correct; “AI” is just fancy speak for “complex math program”. If I make a program that’s simply given an arbitrary input then, thought math operations, outputs Microsoft copyright code, am I in the clear just because it’s “AI”? I think they would sue the heck out of me if I did that, and I believe the opposite should be true as well. I’m sure my ow…

Say you read a bunch of code, say over years of developer career. What you write is influenced by all that. Will include similar patterns, similar code and identical snippets, knowingly or not. How large does snippet have to be before it's copyright? "x"? "x==1"? "if x==1\n print('x is one')"? [obviously, replace with actual common code like if not found return 404]. Do you want to be vulnerable to copyright litigati…

Copyright already worries about this sort of thing a great deal, and it's actually a lot more well thought-out than your average hacker is aware of. There are no hard and fast rules; but generally... the thing being sued over has to be creative enough to be copyrightable in the first place. Small snippets do not qualify for copyright protection alone.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#652

Post by eddsh1994 »

chowells wrote: post #131
eddsh1994 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, same. Not in JS, but in Haskell, for the Even Fib project Euler problem. Something like a million people have submitted right answers for that problem and assuming half wrote their own filter rather than importing a isEven library then that's half a million people there.

You don't need to write your own or import a library for that in Haskell. It's in the Prelude.

Yeah but I like to write as much from scratch when I do leetcode, feels like it's cheating to use stuff that makes an easy problem easier :P

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#654

Post by varajelle »

Aeolun wrote: post #559
varajelle wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take your code and I compress it in a tar.gz file. Il call that file "the model". Then I ask an algorithm (Gzip) to infer some code using "the model". The algorithm (gzip) just learned how to code by reading your code. It just happened to have it memorized in its model.

Yeah, and that’s completely fine. I’ve seen this point made before, but it assumes you use the entire input as output, which is silly.

Oh no, I'm not using the entire input, just a few functions of interest. And not the copyright headers of course.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#655

Post by Someone »

elil17 wrote: post #358
Someone wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It demonstrates that it stifles copying. That may make it easier for the copier to innovate, but doesn’t dispute the main argument for having copyright protection: that, without the protection of copyright, the code wouldn’t have been written.

I think in the case of open source code, most of it still would have been written if no copyright protections existed.

Most of it? I would think >50% of open source code writers find it necessary to restrict the rights to copy and use their code. In a world without copyright protections, would the GPL be legal?

(and I guess courts might, in the future, say the GPL expires when copyrights on the code expire)

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#656

Post by LtWorf »

zarzavat wrote: post #638
theamk wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If lawsuit goes through, it's not likely that Copilot would disappear.. but there would be a checkbox to opt-in your code. You could check it and your code will be used to train model. I have some code on Github as well and would not want it to be used in training, nor by Microsoft nor by other company. It is under GPL license to ensure that any derived use is public and not stripped of copyrights and locked into pro…

If this lawsuit is successful it doubt it will change anything at all. Microsoft will just pay the damages as a cost of doing business and continue what they are doing. Maybe they will add an opt-out.

Continuing to do damage would mean higher fees next time.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#657

Post by LtWorf »

D13Fd wrote: post #624
chlorion wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's selfish to want people to abide by the license I released my project under? That's pure nonsense.

Your code is protected by copyright. The license allows for what would otherwise be copyright infringement. But training an AI model on media (code or otherwise) is not copyright infringement, so the license is irrelevant. It's selfish to pretend otherwise and to try to assert a copyright right that doesn't exist, for the purpose of impeding progress in a field that benefits us all.

> But training an AI model on media (code or otherwise) is not copyright infringement, so the license is irrelevant.

The fact that you write something, doesn't automatically make that thing true.

Some uses of AI were ruled not to be infringement. This is a different case which requires a different ruling.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#658

Post by devmor »

Filligree wrote: post #563
devmor wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is essentially the same as the argument that the pirate bay didn't infringe copyright, it only facilitated infringement. And we all saw how well that went legally.

Pirate Bay couldn't be used to do anything but infringe copyright, practically. That's not true for Copilot.

Nonsense. It tracked millions of legitimate torrents.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#659

Post by sangnoir »

zarzavat wrote: post #635
joe_the_user wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a software systematically engages in copyright violation but only haphazardly corrects those violations, those haphazard correct aren't evidence the problem has vanished.

If Copilot is committing widespread infringements of their copyright, then surely they will be able to find examples of such infringement to submit in their lawsuit. I assume they want some kind of broad relief, such as an injunction to take down copilot. They are not going to get it, they are not going to get anything at all, if they can’t even provide examples of violating code.

> ...then surely they will be able to find examples of such infringement to submit in their lawsuit

Perhaps that is why they are reaching out to potential class members

> if they can’t even provide examples of violating code.

This is the very beginning of a very long process. I wouldn't rule out a settlement where class members get $10-100, which is a common resolution for class action suits.

Re: We've filed a lawsuit against GitHub Copilot

#660

Post by jacobjjacob »

njharman wrote: post #409
Cort3z wrote: post #270

I’m not a lawyer, but here is why I believe a class action lawsuit is correct; “AI” is just fancy speak for “complex math program”. If I make a program that’s simply given an arbitrary input then, thought math operations, outputs Microsoft copyright code, am I in the clear just because it’s “AI”? I think they would sue the heck out of me if I did that, and I believe the opposite should be true as well. I’m sure my ow…

Say you read a bunch of code, say over years of developer career. What you write is influenced by all that. Will include similar patterns, similar code and identical snippets, knowingly or not. How large does snippet have to be before it's copyright? "x"? "x==1"? "if x==1\n print('x is one')"? [obviously, replace with actual common code like if not found return 404]. Do you want to be vulnerable to copyright litigati…

I am vulnerable to copyright litigation for code I write, if I copied it. This is already true of anyone who is writing code.
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