The Ethereum merge is done • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#651

Post by shabbatt » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:11 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

I wonder what will happen now that the ponzi structure is now gained new velocity as energy constraints have shut down proof of work mining. PoW creates centralized collusion between those who can afford the best miners and this helped the velocity of the chain itself since it is only as good as the last mined block.

Now that layer is gone, its this proof-of-stake which is a bit funny since, Ponzi schemes are also proof-of-stake, where the previous investors stake's performance signals the next until the order books flip to a highly skewed with a very long til, it results in the last group who were late to the party, get caught with the bags.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are many whales dumping as they would know (and I hope so) what the new paradigm shift is in this digital ponzi gold rush.

Also rather anxious for these fellas who promoted securities written on ethereum. The SEC flat out came out and said almost all cryptocurrencies passes the howey test recently. This PoS seems perfectly timed for the occassion.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#652

Post by shabbatt » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

TheDudeMan wrote: post #645

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

If you were a crypto miner and had a pile of GPUs would they be powered-off right now? Of course not.

well it certainly won't be used to mine Ethereum anymore and if this is the trend we will see more "high volume" coins see dropping PoW even further.

Those pile of GPU are going to be a write off since prices are dropping and supply issue improves as well.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#653

Post by technolo-g » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

This would provide visibility into Texas: https://p.datadoghq.com/sb/5c2fc00be-393be929c9c55c3b80b557d... Perhaps there are other such dashboards around? (Link was from HN a while back)

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#654

Post by mrits » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

giaour wrote: post #564

Waterluvian wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

Not sure if “goat load” was a typo, but I love it. Although you can put significantly less on a goat than you could on a boat.

It really depends on the boat and the goat.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#655

Post by mgraczyk » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

shabbatt wrote: post #651

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

I wonder what will happen now that the ponzi structure is now gained new velocity as energy constraints have shut down proof of work mining. PoW creates centralized collusion between those who can afford the best miners and this helped the velocity of the chain itself since it is only as good as the last mined block. Now that layer is gone, its this proof-of-stake which is a bit funny since, Ponzi schemes are also pr…

You're confused, in a ponzi earlier investors are paid from the investments of future investors. That's not how PoS works. In Ethereum, everyone is diluted to pay stakers and the time of their investment does not matter.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#656

Post by matkoniecz » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

No, that is more diffuse.

Whoever was using this electronics switched to other BTC variants, but in long term this reduced profitability and should harm people using energy in this way.

But sadly no immediate impact, unless there are electronics that could be profitably consuming power for Ethereum and it is not profitable for alternatives.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#657

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

once_inc wrote: post #476

CodeShmode wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their influence still can override the mining process that’s supposed to be the final word on transactions. Any attempted tampering would be highly visible and why would anyone with control of that much ETH risk loss of trust in their valuable asset?

If all the large entities band together and frame the issue as something negative that needs to be prevented/reverted, then nobody will care enough to attempt punishment. We've seen this when ETH and ETC split after Vitalik used ETH in the premine to vote for a split, then framed it as "the majority wants to split".

If the majority didn't want a split, they were free to keep trading ETC.

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#658

Post by mox1 » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

shabbatt wrote: post #652

TheDudeMan wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a crypto miner and had a pile of GPUs would they be powered-off right now? Of course not.

well it certainly won't be used to mine Ethereum anymore and if this is the trend we will see more "high volume" coins see dropping PoW even further. Those pile of GPU are going to be a write off since prices are dropping and supply issue improves as well.

if you are part of a mining pool, its possible they just auto-switched you to mine another coin (Ethereum Classic, LiteCoin, etc)

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#659

Post by TylerE » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

apeace wrote: post #634

> It's like Finland has suddenly shut off its power grid So, have we observed global energy usage go down by about one Finland? Shouldn't that be observable somehow? Shouldn't there be some power stations reducing their output as a reaction to reduced demand? Anyone know how this would be visible, and on what kind of time frame we expect it to become visible? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened. I just feel surprised…

Power demand varies wildly during the day (Like +/-50%, maybe more depending on climate). A 1% change will get lost in the noise of "Oh, it's 3 degrees warmer today... HVAC working harder"

Re: The Ethereum merge is done

#660

Post by matkoniecz » Thu, Sep 15, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC

once_inc wrote: post #469

Waterluvian wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using up a goat load of electricity is like 99% of why this change is great. Let people speculate on their funny money without harming everyone. A lateral move on the other details is rather unsurprising.

Using electricity isn't the problem. Anyone could use vast amounts of electricity as long as they are willing to pay the price for it. The problem is carbon emissions. The switch to PoS is a non-issue from my perspective: a centralized system changed from using method A to method B, I don't understand why I should care. Bitcoin mining is increasingly being used to prevent methane emissions in stranded gas reserves. H…

> allows Bitcoin mining to become net carbon negative

Phrasing in this way suggests that Bitcoin is already net carbon negative or can plausibly become it. That is not true.

> Using electricity isn't the problem.

It is, as electricity is fungible and wasting it on bitcoin increases prices for everyone else and encourages greater degradation of shared resources.