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The end of the manual transmission is near?

popularmechanics.com

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Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#651

Post by kalleboo »

tomohawk wrote: post #568
tadfisher wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're not classified as passenger vehicles, so they don't have to meet the same standards.

Exactly. The technocrats thought they'd be clever, and they basically outlawed reasonably sized cars for very small marginal efficiency gains. People bought light truck instead. People don't want to drive around in dinky death traps. The CAFE standards for cars are too restrictive. The fleet averages look great, but the percentage of cars as vehicles on the road is low. Cars such as station wagons don't exist any mor…

> The technocrats thought they'd be clever, and they basically outlawed reasonably sized cars for very small marginal efficiency gains. People bought light truck instead. People don't want to drive around in dinky death traps

I thought this comment was saying the opposite of what you meant at first. There are no small cars anymore, even the "Mini" is gigantic. And modern cars are safer than ever, due to smarter design and better engineered materials.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#652

Post by koheripbal »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #7

I reiterate my compromise proposal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32397975 I will give up my manual transmission, if you will bring back pull-knobs, twist knobs and other tactile switches for the main controls of my vehicle, with the appropriate tactile feedback at set points so I can set them without looking. After thinking on it, I am going to raise my demands, however: you also need to produce cars that are…

I don't understand the point of your comment.

You only represent yourself and you are mixing multiple issues. Why would car makers listen to this "compromise"?

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#653

Post by throwaway0a5e »

withinboredom wrote: post #346
Salgat wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ended up going back to automatic after 3 years of manual. Automatic is more fuel efficient, more convenient, and honestly I can't enjoy urban traffic either way, at least with automatic I don't have to think about it. If I truly want to enjoy a manual I'll do it on the race track.

It’s all in how you drive. I got 50-57 mpg in my old manual. My wife had the same engine in a different car as an automatic. I would only get 20-30 in it. My car was rated for 25-30 mpg. Most people don’t know how to drive a manual transmission for efficiency or never cared to find out, so they drive it like an automatic, which the car isn’t. Thus they end up with less mpg than they would in an automatic.

I'd just like to remind the downvoters that most early 90s compacts put down well over 40mpg with the manual, easily 50+ if you try, and around 30 no matter what you do if equipped with a 3spd auto. Depending on differences in usage patterns and driving style I low 50s vs high 20s is extreme but plausible.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#654

Post by JetSetWilly »

tjr225 wrote: post #13

Manual transmission fetishism is perplexing to me. I’ve owned two manual transmission cars… an old Hyundai Elantra and an even older Toyota pickup. I can’t think of a single reason I would not rather have the automatic version of either. I also presume manual transmissions will continue to be available to the enthusiasts and professionals/sportspeople who have an actual reason to desire them.

Do you only drive on huge freeways or something?

Where I live (where manuals are the "default") it seems like automatics are the fetishistic option. There's lots of hills, winding country roads etc round here, an automatic is a bloody nightmare because it doesn't "know" I'm approaching a hill, time to drop to a lower gear just here, I'm approaching the top of a hill, change up now, I'm overtaking on a road, I need high acceleration now. It completely fails at knowing all this and is less efficient as a result.

This is why I am sceptical of all the "automatics are more efficient these days" line. Maybe there's some volkswagen style dodgy tests that show that driving under predictable conditions on a motorway it is more efficient, but as automatics can't know upcoming conditions on the road or intentions I doubt they are more efficient in the real world. At least not round here.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#655

Post by AlexandrB »

accountofme wrote: post #481
AlexandrB wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a non answer. Australia has a vehicle style commonly referred to as a "ute"[1]. I think it stand for "utility". Which is basically a car with a truck bed in the back. This provides many of the advantages of a pickup without the increased danger to pedestrians. Why are car companies not marketing/selling these to the average consumer instead of the monster RAMs and F150s? I suspect the reason has everything to…

We did . From what I can see ford and holden utes aren't made anymore...

That's too bad :(

I remember seeing them everywhere in Australia when I visited.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#656

Post by BirAdam »

gerdesj wrote: post #94
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #48

> it’s not something you master overnight. I’m not ashamed to mention that it took me a few sessions in a parking lot to get the fundamentals down This kind of line always confuses me. I mean, I remember my first driving lesson in the UK. Guy arrived in a BMW 116, manual. He said to me: what is there to explain, you get in and drive. So I got in and drove. Did my first hour, took 5 minutes to get comfortable with the…

It's unlikely it took you five minutes to get the hang of clutch control and shifting gears. OK, it is possible you managed to avoid kangerooing but only for a small range of circumstances. From rest (with a gear selected and clutch depressed), you have to unlatch the handbrake, whilst at the same time gradually engage the clutch and deploy power via the throttle pedal. You have to ensure you don't go backwards on a…

It took me quite a while to really get the hang of driving. I was learning on standard shift. Definitely stalled a lot that first day, and second.

On the other hand, it comes easier to some people. I taught my best friend, and he was better than I within about a minute. I gave him the general instructions on how it works and he stalled twice and then he was fine.

I think that the ease of use curve is entirely dependent on the thing between the shifter and the seat.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#657

Post by kllrnohj »

randunel wrote: post #472
fjfaase wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think from a purely mechanical point of view, this is the case, meaning that if you have two cars, one with manual gearbox and one with an automatic gearbox, both driving at the same speed with the same gear ratio, the one with the automatic gearbox will likely use slightly more fuel. But even this might not the case at all possible speeds. But at some speeds when the car with the manual gearbox is using the wrong…

The automatic gearbox frequently upshifts in error (for example, just before a hill, making a downshift immediate) and downshifts too late when overtaking, resulting in erratic behaviour, lots of revs, and considerably more fuel consumption. Taking this into account, in almost all cases cases, a manual transmission might be more efficient.

None of what you describe costs fuel, nor does it cause "lots of revs"? Upshifting "too much" is the opposite, it's fewer revs (and therefore less fuel used, not more)

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#658

Post by throwaway0a5e »

2rsf wrote: post #422
davidgay wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars don't have automatic transmissions.

Well, there are very few EVs (or plans for such) with two gears https://insideevs.com/news/511495/two-speed-ev-gearbox-inmot... and https://insideevs.com/features/436049/rimac-two-speed-gearbo...

As EVs proliferate to work vehicles we'll likely see 2spd and maybe 3spd gearboxes for the same reason trucks have multiple gear ranges. There is a point at which a simple high/low planetary gearset with a simple engagement mechanism has better tradeoffs than an electric motor that can operate happily and reliably throughout the entire torque/speed range you need (which is the same reason your cordless drill has two gears).

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#659

Post by lupire »

JoBrad wrote: post #601
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the utility is seldom fully utilized in an urban environment, they are nearly pure fashion. Utilization of private vehicles scales with income, not with population density. HN just all tends to live in "nice" places so they never see people using their vehicles to the max. This is true for all vehicle classes, not just pickup trucks.

Maybe selective utilization of private vehicles is linked to income, but in many parts of the US, a car is a necessity.

Parent is making a (unclear and dubious) comment about how much each vehicle is used, not how many people own vehicles.

Re: The end of the manual transmission is near?

#660

Post by BirAdam »

macintux wrote: post #599
quacked wrote: post #142

I would pay $25,000 cash for a new manual transmission '00s-style mid-sized pickup with hand-crank windows and knobs for the temperature and radio. Last time I drove a car from after 2018 it started automatically keeping pace with the car in front of me on the highway, and you couldn't manually close the trunk but instead had to push a button and wait for it to close. I hate modern cars.

Jeep Wranglers still offered hand crank windows and a manual transmission until very recently. I think the hand crank windows are now gone, but the MT survived for at least one more generation.

You can still get manual door locks and windows on the 2023 JL Sport and Willys Sport, but these start at 30k.
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