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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#651

Post by fvdessen »

itsoktocry wrote: post #591
sircastor wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern is not a voided warranty. The concern is tech-illiterate users being able to install some random app they found on the web. They find a special version of Facebook and install it, and now their phone is compromised.

> They find a special version of Facebook and install it, and now their phone is compromised. The Android ecosystem is a bit of a cesspool, but surely even it isn't having major issues with swaths of people having their phone compromised, right? My parents aren't going to sideload an apk. I have faith that there's a way to do this right.

I saw a friend go through all the motions of sideloading an apk of a fake DHL app he got through a 'track your delivery' fishing email. He did the whole thing while complaining about 'How stupid DHL is', and 'How orwellian it is' for DHL to ask for screen record permission ...

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#652

Post by car_analogy »

aljungberg wrote: post #650
car_analogy wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “for my own good” No, for the common good. We are all harmed when Apple or Google can decide which businesses will succeed or fail, which apps get censored and which are allowed.

Can us common people get to decide what the common good is, or is that exclusively your choice? Censorship is something governments do, not private companies selling an optional product. If the greater good is a free for all app store, then let the greater populace decide that by choosing that product, not by outlawing the alternatives.

> Can us common people get to decide what the common good is, or is that exclusively your choice?

This legislation is the result of democratic process - i.e. decided by the "common people", if indirectly.

> let the greater populace decide that by choosing that product

"The only legitimate power citizens have is that of consumers, not voters." - shall we also decide to only buy from companies that don't use child labor, and don't put toxic chemicals in food, and don't pollute, or are those areas something where legislation is legitimate, while reigning in anti-competitive practices for some reason is not okay?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#653

Post by xdennis »

n8cpdx wrote: post #607
capableweb wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And even if you're a die hard fan of closed computing, nothing bad will happen. You'll simply pick Safari, never sideload an app, and pay with Apple Pay. We can coexist. This is the important point. Just like with decentralized VS centralized debate, starting out with one of them, decides if you can even have the other one. If you have a decentralized foundation (like HTTP), you can always add centralized entities…

This is naive and assumes that there aren’t bigger, badder actors to deal with - Facebook, Google, and others can and will abuse their position. This will make the iPhone worse for everyone, especially if chrome manages a dominant position and developers can stop supporting safari. It will probably make my Mac worse, too. I still haven’t heard a single good reason why people who want sideloading can’t just use Androi…

> Hands. Off. My. iPhone.

Nobody is forcing you to sideload anything.

The way I see it, you enjoy a walled garden where many people are competing to provide you with apps. But they have to follow Apple's directives.

The EU is also such a walled garden where companies have to follow the rules.

In essence, nobody is forcing anybody. If you don't want Apple's control, buy an Android phone. If Apple doesn't like the EU's control, it shouldn't sell in the EU.

So when you say "hands off my phone" I say "hands off MY phone". You don't like the EU's regulation. I don't like Apple's regulation.

You might say that Apple should be able to do that because it is a private company. But that private company brought in more net sales in 2021 (366 billion) than my country's GDP (Romania, 288 billion). I have more choice in moving countries (26 other countries in the EU) than phone platforms (basically 2).

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#654

Post by arvinsim »

trollied wrote: post #195
warning26 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. This is such an oft-repeated argument, yet overlooks that Android already allows sideloading and alternative app stores. If everyone-creating-their-own-app-store hasn't happened on Android, why would iOS be different?

Counter argument: The millions of different game launchers on Windows. What a complete and utter mess.

Millions? Cite them.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#655

Post by nuker »

tsimionescu wrote: post #468
joshstrange wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Happy that I might be able to install something else than Safari. I hope you like Chrome then. > I want the Gecko engine on iOS. It will probably exist in some official capacity (not just the open source wrappers like IceWeasel or whatever they call it) but it will probably get about as much love as it does on Android which is to say not much at all. Also the market share will be <1% if I had to guess which means n…

As a happy exclusive user of Firefox on Android (and PC), I have yet to meet any sites except legacy corporate apps that had any sort of problem with FF in the last 1-2 years at least.

It is simply because Mozilla blindly follows Google in how thing should work in the engine.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#656

Post by samatman »

majewsky wrote: post #566
judge2020 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is the popup for app store personalized ads[0], which is a full-screen popup that forces you to choose one or the other before you can access the app. It's super transparent and easy to decline the personalization. 0: https://videoweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Apple-permi...

I wonder how many people actually register that there are two buttons at the bottom? It's very obvious to power-users like us since we're used to [ Accept ] Cancel at this point, but I can only imagine the borderless design for the secondary button originating from a dark pattern.

The entire iOS operating system works that way now.

I dislike it. I think buttons should be buttons. But this isn't a special case, so unless you consider every instance of two buttons looking this way a dark pattern, this one isn't either.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#657

Post by archagon »

quitit wrote: post #620
fleddr wrote: post #593

Quite a few are commenting from their own perspective, as a consumer/user of an Apple device, and whether you're happy with it or not. That's not really the point. The emphasis of this legislation first and foremost is on developers. Whom need/deserve a level playing field, instead of having the odds stacked up against them. A return to more open computing should be celebrated, even if it remains to be seen what will…

>You'll simply pick Safari, never sideload an app, and pay with Apple Pay. We can coexist. This isn't even slightly realistic. It's a mistake to believe that these changes won't have run on consequences for developers. This isn't an outcome where you can have your cake and eat it too. It's not like everything will stay the same, except now developers have a bunch of extra freedoms. That exhibits no ability to think e…

Surely this logic can be extended to lock down all computing devices?

Moreover, if I had the choice, I would never trust a giant multinational corporation to be the sole gatekeeper of my digital life.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#658

Post by FredPret »

arvinsim wrote: post #649
FredPret wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the walled garden. You want a self-managed server, buy one. I want a foolproof thin client for myself and all the older people in my life

Are you saying that old people who have difficulty figuring a phone will suddenly become a techie that can find an obscure setting? Complete FUD. Stop fearmongering.

Read again and reinterpret. Old people will get sent a link to the “new official tax app” and be screwed six ways to Sunday.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#659

Post by walterbell »

novok wrote: post #634
itsoktocry wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but how do we know that Apple doesn't track more data than they provide to developers?

If you ever interview apple developers for other companies, or just inspect what is being sent to apple's servers constantly from their devices, you'll realize that apple is recording A LOT of very private info about their users. Apple is very much a 'private from everyone but apple' company, they smartly just don't talk about it out loud. For their high level apps like TV and such, have things like privacy review. B…

Block all traffic to Apple at the router, except (e.g. use a different SSID) when you need to perform OS/app updates.

Apple kindly publishes IP exception lists so you can still receive notifications, while blocking the rest of 17/8.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#660

Post by xdennis »

ynniv wrote: post #529
ko27 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don’t choose iPhone because they want those things Your argument is ridiculous. People didn't choose iPhone because they wanted to deprive themself of an option to switch browsers engines or payment vendors either. People actually chose iPhones for a thousand other reasons.

No one chooses phones based on browser engines. Why anyone is upset with Apple improving security by only allowing executable pages in Safari is beyond my comprehension.

Do you also want Apple to improve security by not allowing sideloading on their PCs as well?
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