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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#651

Post by bonzini »

moduspol wrote: post #617
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

This is the case I try to make to friends and relatives (non-EV owners) who insist that a common plug is a prerequisite to EV ownership. Standardizing against Tesla at any earlier point would have been a gift on a silver platter for legacy auto by slowing EV adoption, and it's Tesla's freedom to innovate that is why we're even having this discussion instead of theoretical questions about what EVs might be like in the…

> charge speeds comparable to ICE fill-ups

That's just impossible. Filling a 100 kWh "tank" in one minute requires 6 MW of power, plus all the power that goes into heat. The only solution would be replacing batteries on the fly but Tesla discontinued it.

Moving stuff is inherently faster than chemical reactions (unless you're talking about explosions).

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#652

Post by noahtallen »

theplumber wrote: post #287
samatman wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a citizen of the EU, so your various centrally-planned interventions in the world economy affect me without any possibility of representation. It leaves me hoping your economy becomes much smaller so Asia can start ignoring it. Or reform I guess, the vote is yours, not mine.

Imagine different gasoline plugs...that would be stupid, isnt't it? Or different fuel formula for different car models or different AC sockets in the same house... Also I'm not sure why you hold Asia so dear. You may soon get some centrally planned standards from China in the EV market and not only(i.e online services such tiktok)

I agree with you, but noting that fuel may not be the best example as you have both completely different fuels (like diesel) and different types of normal gas (premium)

Still though, having the same “regular” gas at every single gas station is an underrated benefit!

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#653

Post by [deleted] »

wumpus wrote: post #307
aiisjustanif wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if we had this outlook towards plugs in houses in the US. Standardization is underrated.

There are a bunch of different plugs in houses in the US, look at electric stoves and clothes dryers.

[deleted]

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#654

Post by izacus »

smoldesu wrote: post #602
izacus wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The change has to have come earlier, my pre-Mariko Switch had no troubles charging from multiple phone, MacBook, tablet and 3rd party USB-C chargers.

It's interesting, that does seem to be what people are reporting... I wonder if that suggests that an IC redesign came before Mariko but after launch?

I'd say there was a firmware update of the USB-C chip somewhere early to fix bugs.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#655

Post by Wohlf »

thorncorona wrote: post #597
microtonal wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply a random combination of any of the previous stuff. [...] Now I have a whole bunch of them and I cannot tell which can do what except very few long thick ones for my monitors. Get a Thunderbolt 4 cable, they can carry Thunderbolt 3, Thunderbolt 4, every USB protocol up to and including 4, DP alt-mode, and 100W power delivery. Moreover, most of them are clearly marked. The Apple cables are expensive, but so…

> Since I have switched to quality Thunderbolt Docks, I haven't had any issues. Do you have a list of quality docks? Or how you determine what a quality dock is?

I've tried several through work, so far Dell has been the only ones that just worked with everything. Lenovo was fine for most things, HP didn't even work with the laptop it was designed for.

I think the biggest thing is how much power the dock provides and how much attached devices need.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#656

Post by arcticbull »

ericd wrote: post #306
arcticbull wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we wait until Apple comes up with a MagSafe connector for phones they want to use and the big bad regulators won't let them? Tim Cook has his own PR team, haha.

Don’t you think this might discourage them from investing the R&D to make something that’ll require a fight to release?

Since they've been using Lightning for about 10 years now, I'd say there's other things that are inhibiting their innovation. I suspect it has more to do with third-party accessory manufacturers. Unless you're suggesting that connector innovation requires at least a 10 year iteration cycle?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#657

Post by solarkraft »

robonerd wrote: post #637
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

> Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs

Mandatory Tom Scott video about bri'ish power plugs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q

:-)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#658

Post by dfox »

nybble41 wrote: post #459
kiawe_fire wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was set to be all libertarian about this, but your suggestion is probably more level headed. There should be some common ground. Regulations that encourage innovation (perhaps even with timed financial incentives) while also ensuring that the best ideas are eventually freely adoptable across the board. Seems like, as with most issues, people take one extreme or the other, when a common sense middle ground could be…

> I was set to be all libertarian about this… Disallowing patents is the libertarian solution, though it would be up to the customers to demand published specifications and official support for interoperability.

The original intention of patent system was to encourage open publication of inventions. It even still works that way for some verticals. The issue is that it also produced a system that it is profitable to game and thus there are patent attorneys who get by by writing the patent in as vague terms as is possible to pass by patent reviewers, and in these kind of adversarial situations it is quite obvious that the private sector will win over the government bureaucrats.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#659

Post by warning26 »

dfox wrote: post #631
notJim wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange to read this comment on article about USB, which has been developed by committee from the beginning. To me it seems quite innovative, and arguably disruptive to have a single standard for all these things. Maybe USB doesn't clear your personal bar, but then why worry about this at all?

From time to time Intel's marketing tries to sell the idea that USB was invented by this one Intel engineer. Somewhat obviously that is not true. On the other hand if you compare USB 1.0 to 1.1 it is quite obvious that real implementation experience and throwing out artifacts of the design by committee was quite important for the success.

> On the other hand if you compare USB 1.0 to 1.1 it is quite obvious that real implementation experience and throwing out artifacts of the design by committee was quite important for the success.

This sounds like it has some interesting history there; do you have any recommended sources to read about the transition between USB 1.0 and 1.1?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#660

Post by moduspol »

bonzini wrote: post #651
moduspol wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the case I try to make to friends and relatives (non-EV owners) who insist that a common plug is a prerequisite to EV ownership. Standardizing against Tesla at any earlier point would have been a gift on a silver platter for legacy auto by slowing EV adoption, and it's Tesla's freedom to innovate that is why we're even having this discussion instead of theoretical questions about what EVs might be like in the…

> charge speeds comparable to ICE fill-ups That's just impossible. Filling a 100 kWh "tank" in one minute requires 6 MW of power, plus all the power that goes into heat. The only solution would be replacing batteries on the fly but Tesla discontinued it. Moving stuff is inherently faster than chemical reactions (unless you're talking about explosions).

It doesn't have to be equivalent. Just being comparable from a user experience and business case perspective would be enough.

Getting it down to five minutes to fill to 80% may be sufficient. Right now it's 15-20 minutes.

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