Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#651

Post by swayvil » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

stoltzmann wrote: post #101

swayvil wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? It's white, optimized for showing dirt. It's closest to the ground, optimized for getting dirty. And (In the case of your typical sneaker) It's a special weird porous rubber that is difficult to get clean, optimized for quickly looking like crap. And when your shoes look like crap it's time to buy new shoes. Thus we have shoes optimized for short lifespan. But this is dead obvious.

From anecdotal evidence, I've got the same pair of sneakers for... 4 years now I think? I'm using them daily and yeah, they've got dirty on the bottom, but I wouldn't consider throwing them out just due to that. I'll replace them once the sole is damaged to the point the shoes stop performing their function. At that point, it doesn't make a difference whether it's white or black for the sole. You could have made your…

Your professed ignorance strains my credulity. And pointing out the dead obvious is generally a fool's errand.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#652

Post by pmoriarty » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

yojo wrote: post #162

ascar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety razors are much better at making a neckline, if you only shave clean partially and trim the remaining beard. Personally I also get less skin irritation from the safety razor compared to the Mach3 I used before. Given I use it correctly. If you move "against" the hair instead of "with" the hair it caused a lot of irritation for me. But that was essentially user error. In total I would never go back to a Mach3.…

The “once you use it correctly” is worth highlighting though. I tried the double edge safety razor. Got the brush, shaving cream, big pack of Astra blades. Watched a bunch of YouTube videos on technique. Spent way more time shaving. Nicked myself an ungodly number of times. Somehow got a worse shave out of it. Ended up going back to the cartridge razor. I really want to be a double edge razor guy, but I was not able…

"I tried the double edge safety razor. Got the brush, shaving cream, big pack of Astra blades. Watched a bunch of YouTube videos on technique. Spent way more time shaving. Nicked myself an ungodly number of times."

Maybe it's the blades?

I started with Derby Extra blades[1], and without using any special technique I've nicked myself only maybe once a year with them.

The weight of the razor might also figure in to it -- I got a Parker 66R razor[2], which has a nice heft to it, which means I don't have to press in to my face with the razor -- the weight of the razor itself is enough.

If you had a plastic and/or light-weight razor maybe you had to press in to your face, which could account for the nicks.

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032Q41LS/

[2] - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0141BGDLI/

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#653

Post by awinter-py » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

fairly good coverage of these topics in legal writing

'the durapolist puzzle' https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=496175 is about 20th century history of durable goods marketing + how consumers prefer small up-front discount to long-term quality

'neo-luddite's lament' https://economics.mit.edu/files/883/ is about forced upgrades and oligopolies

there's a famous-ish law review paper called 'the durapolist's dilemma' about the 20th century history of durable goods marketing. conclusion is that consumers are not totally savvy about buying things that last

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#654

Post by swayvil » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

bowsamic wrote: post #185

swayvil wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? It's white, optimized for showing dirt. It's closest to the ground, optimized for getting dirty. And (In the case of your typical sneaker) It's a special weird porous rubber that is difficult to get clean, optimized for quickly looking like crap. And when your shoes look like crap it's time to buy new shoes. Thus we have shoes optimized for short lifespan. But this is dead obvious.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes, those superficial and insecure people. How awful they are.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#655

Post by hackernewds » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #378

gruez wrote: post #158

>Other examples of products that seem to exhibit a similar trend, where purported convenience leads to higher prices >Cooking equipment: essentially indestructible Cast Iron skillets transition into teflon pans. The newer pans perform worse, and must be replaced on a shockingly regular basis. They also seem to be poisonous. They have their uses. I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you…

> Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie. the precursor chemicals) and when they get too hot. 1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and on…

cast iron is still not a viable alternative for every day cooking due to leeching of the iron into food - some iron is good, but usually this occurs at extraordinary levels

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#656

Post by jseban » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

Beltiras wrote: post #473

jader201 wrote: post #398

Why is a thread on electric razors not the top comment on a post about the expense/waste of straight razors? I get that they have some downsides, but if we’re talking about the expense/waste of straight razors, then it would make sense to consider electric razors. I’ve seen so many ads about companies trying to “invent” the most effective, lowest cost straight razor and it still confuses me, given we already have ele…

I have a weird combination of skin type and hair. My skin will inflame if I use an electric razor, even using a cheap 2 layer razor will make me itch and scratch for a week. The two things that do work are shaper electric ones (can't get a close shave with that) and 3 blade cartridge ones. Thankfully I can get away with rarely grooming completely, just use the shaper.

I think that's true for everyone, definitely for me and my acquaintances.

The only thing that works well are multi blade cartridges or two passes with a double edged razor (never tried a straight razor).

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#657

Post by cormacrelf » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:13 PM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #631

this_is_eline wrote: post #462

While I believe that many things stated in this post are correct, this still has that hard 'old man yelling at the internet' odor. If you are to compare stuff, stuff like modern razor cartridges and double-edged razors, you ought to mention the convenience side of the things. I hate being the devil's advocate, but shaving with 4-blade cartridge designed for easy shaving is still 'miles' ahead compared to shaving with…

If you shave with a sharp double edge safety you are at 95% of whatever the "4 blade megarazors" do. The only ones I might like a little better are the bendy heads that conform to the face a bit better. But it's not worth destroying the environment or paying 20X as much for the blades.

They make em bendy now? Hmm... back in DE land, the state of the art is holding the blade extremely rigidly with the clamp much closer to the edge. Think a woodworking planer rather than someone holding a floppy knife. Henson Shaving. Very good reviews on the site even in comparison to other DE razors, similar from people I know. https://hensonshaving.com/

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#658

Post by Damogran6 » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

1 Bought Gilette razors at highway robbery prices 2 Bought Gilette Razors at Slightly less highway robbery prices at Costco 3 Bought Harry Razors at a significant savings (Gilette publishes ads "Won't you think of our employee's familes!?) 4 Grew a Goatee, stopped shaving as much 4.5 Got a Braun to maintain the goatee 5 Found Gilette Razors offer a superior shave to the Harry ones Now Shave whole face every two weeks and just the non-goatee parts once a week. (Replace Gilette blades about once every two months.)

I'm good with what it's costing me now.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#659

Post by sergiomattei » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:14 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #647

this_is_eline wrote: post #462

While I believe that many things stated in this post are correct, this still has that hard 'old man yelling at the internet' odor. If you are to compare stuff, stuff like modern razor cartridges and double-edged razors, you ought to mention the convenience side of the things. I hate being the devil's advocate, but shaving with 4-blade cartridge designed for easy shaving is still 'miles' ahead compared to shaving with…

Why do you then use a double-edged razor? something doesn't add up

Yeah this doesn’t match up with my experience. Double edged gets to equivalent efficiency after the learning curve for me.

Perhaps my hair is just soft, and I suspect it is, but I started out taking 10-15 minutes and now I can do a quick shave in 5.

It lasts longer, it’s cheaper, and easier on my skin — I break out less often.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#660

Post by autoexec » Sat, May 07, 2022, 6:16 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #632

betwixthewires wrote: post #580

My dad bought me one of these bulky 12 speed razors, 5 years ago. I've used 1 cartridge from it about 6 months ago. I hadn't shaved my face since before they came out. I use a clipper to keep it trimmed. Why use any disposable product whatsoever. His point on single use plastics is spot on. I know a lot of people that love to lecture me about my moralistic views, the types of people who believe in overpopulation and…

> Start refusing to buy things and stop making excuses and until then you should feel ashamed to lecture anyone about anything. This does not make sense to me. The single biggest consumption item is living in a detached single family house with yard space (due to knock on effects of everything you consume having to travel further, including the people in your house). I know this, and I can advocate for change such th…

> There is no reason for someone to not live it up if the collective is not going to also sacrifice.

If everyone thought as you do saying "Until everyone agrees to sacrifice, I won't either" then no one would ever sacrifice. Leading by example on the other hand is a proven way to help inspire change and can help avoid adding to harms caused by people who choose to live selfishly as long as they can point to anyone else also being selfish.

Housing is a subject full of complications and increased population density causes problems for the environment as well. Personally, I don't care of you live in a McMansion or a shanty town. I don't care of you buy the plastic razor with 47 blades or whatever they are up to now or switch to double bladed razors, but don't blame your selfishness on "the collective". You have no power over what they do, and they have no power over what you do. You alone are responsible for deciding for yourself what you're willing to give up in order to help the environment.