Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#651

Post by stormking » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:32 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #130

_moof wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be working from old info here but my understanding is that vaccination reduces the ICU burden. Assuming that's still good info, is it totally unreasonable to blame the unvaccinated for ICU overload?

Vaccination does reduce the proportion of people that need ICU beds, but there are pretty rapid diminishing returns on just vaccinating more; countries have reached the point where the majority of Covid patients in their ICUs are vaccinated at well below 100% vaccination. Also, vaccinating younger lower-risk people doesn't help because they're at substantially lower risk of needing the ICU even unvaccinated than some…

Right now, young people take the "booster shots" that should be given to the elderly, first. Politicians will be very proud that "XY percent of the population are already boostered". The dying will continue.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#652

Post by op00to » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:33 PM UTC

elvis10ten wrote: post #463

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Not everybody who hasn’t taken the vaccine is an antivaxxer. I think a distinction needs to be made between anti vaxxers and people who are just naive/“dumb”. I have seen more of the later group. Which is why I’m surprised when someone here or in mainstream media says this has anything to do with a political side. This distinction is useful IMO in creating sound policies.

Literally people who are eligible and do not get the vaccine are anti-vaccination.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#653

Post by snidane » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I think you are confusing a vaccine and an experimental 6-month cycle therapy that just happened to get 'vaccine' in its name.

Don't get confused by names. Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic in name only as well.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#654

Post by jansan » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #495

whiddershins wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most salient thing about rights is that the majority isn't permitted take them away whenever it suits them.

Access to healthcare is considered a right in Germany. They're mandating vaccines so that they can continue to provide all their citizens with this human right. Sometimes rights clash, which is why you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater despite having the right to freedom of speech. An individual's right to do X on principle can absolutely be overruled by the right for a larger group of people to continue living…

How exactly does forcing teenagers to be vaccinated help with the situation on the intensive care units?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#655

Post by op00to » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

hfj6gghgf wrote: post #642

elvis10ten wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everybody who hasn’t taken the vaccine is an antivaxxer. I think a distinction needs to be made between anti vaxxers and people who are just naive/“dumb”. I have seen more of the later group. Which is why I’m surprised when someone here or in mainstream media says this has anything to do with a political side. This distinction is useful IMO in creating sound policies.

Finally someone who doesn't abuse the word antivaxer. An enourmous majority of people who choose to not take this particular vaccine are not antivaxers. Or maybe the meaning of the word has evolved and I'm out of the loop. In my vocabulary it is someone who doesn't believe in/take any vaccines.

So if someone takes ONE vaccine but shuns all others they can’t be anti-vaccine? That makes no logical sense.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#656

Post by somewhereoutth » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

pokepim wrote: post #374

somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Nah, what you saying is not realistical. This is more like wishful thinking and would only work in suppressive utopia (if that’s a thing). We as a society had only one shot at doing a lockdown that could work and it was at the beginning of march 2020. Some countries actually managed to have almost no cases but they had to do harsh lockdowns and everyone needed to comply. After that with 2nd and 3rd waves we have seen…

Well this is what is being seen in Germany right now - restriction fatigue -> case explosion -> overwhelmed hospitals -> restrictions.

People may be unwilling, but at some point (i.e. when healthcare systems start failing) restrictions will be enforced, and people will comply.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#657

Post by VyperCard » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

lb0 wrote: post #590

worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

> Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing them to comply is probably a cure worse than the disease - even a disease like COVID Yeah, please please come here and find a way to "unloose" these people, I'm out of clue. We have a lot of failures here in Germany that surface, everything is too slow, from ba…

Thanks for this. I was stressed out by all the bullshit comments here. This replenished my faith in humanity so I can go to sleep now.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#658

Post by op00to » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:36 PM UTC

Bantros wrote: post #605

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

It's just I'm not gonna take it is all

So brave

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#659

Post by cm2187 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:36 PM UTC

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

You are equating not taking the vaccine to being anti-vax. That makes a nice slogan but that is not true. For instance it makes zero sense for people who already got covid to get vaccinated. By now that must be 20-30% of the population in most western countries. The benefits for a healthy 20-something are also spurious. This is not the population that will flood ICUs. So you can perfectly decline to take that vaccine without being anti-vax in any way.

There are many people who decline to be vaccinated who are irrational (and I think anyone over 60 who does is just not looking at their risks right). But you won’t convince them by forcing their hand or making obviously untrue statements.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#660

Post by cedivad » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:37 PM UTC

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> but 30% are holding everyone back

If you truly believe squashing the number of unvaccinated people will result in any significant benefit for the rest of us you are undeserving of the first place in this comment thread.

You could wait a few months for those vaccine laws to go into effect in Europe for proof. Or you could just look at the existing body of data that's staring at you in the face and are deciding to ignore because faulting someone else is one of the most primitive endorphins kicks you can get.

Signed: a fully vaccinated (and disgusted) user.