Why is it getting worse? It is always getting worse.
TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
651–660 of 725 posts
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#652Earlier quoted context omitted.
The positive experience I have on a platform, the people I connect with, the things I learn — all of that is mine, and no change in algorithm can take that away. I am also giving you a perspective as one of those "vulnerable" populations ostensibly harmed by TikTok, which is what the comment I responded to claimed. I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't.…
> I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something. The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. Furthermore, there's not a single worse place for…
I fully agree, and I hope more platforms will come.
That's why I am talking about the good sides of TikTok here: so that people understand them (which, currently, a lot of the people don't - including me two months ago) - and build something better.
Currently, both Instagram and Youtube have TikTok-like feeds... and miss the mark by a mile. So clearly they don't get it. There really is space for an upstart in that field.
I like the IRC comparison, because TikTok, somehow, is the closest thing in terms of giving the feel of IRC to me today.
An open-source TikTok alternative that communities can sprout it would be awesome. And for that to happen, we need to talk about what makes TikTok good.
Because creating a clone with all of the downsides is easy. Figuring out what made it the #1 app, I believe, is the most important part if you want TikTok to go away.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#653Earlier quoted context omitted.
The positive experience I have on a platform, the people I connect with, the things I learn — all of that is mine, and no change in algorithm can take that away. I am also giving you a perspective as one of those "vulnerable" populations ostensibly harmed by TikTok, which is what the comment I responded to claimed. I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't.…
> I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something. The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. Furthermore, there's not a single worse place for…
Just to add to what you said:
>The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes.
This is changing. Most videos I see are 1 minute long, many of them sped up 2x (perfect format for me). And you can upload videos up to 3 minutes long now - which is good enough for a lightning talk.
And the time limitation is what has forced people to state their points very coherently, be laconic, speak fast (or speed up videos), add subtitles and text overlays - all the things that I want (and that some successful YouTubers, like Vi Hart, already do, but most don't).
I believe there is a place for a platform with the creative limitation of short time length.
>I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something.
That wasn't my experience, but it's hard to say which one is representative. FWIW, the neurodivergent community there is great and well-connected.
Is TikTok good for everyone else? I don't know, but that's one subset of people for whom it seems to work really well now.
As you said, I hope the future brings us a less-centralized TikTok not controlled by an oppressive regime. But who would want to build something that (if you read the comments here!) is only seen with scorn?
Yes, using TikTok is selling your soul to the devil kind of deal. Let's figure out what people get from the devil that made TikTok the #1 app globally.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#654Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The China thing is touchy but I want the west to beat them by being better, not by being dismissive and protectionist. The problem is that China doesn't play fair, so if the west plays perfectly fair against them, we won't beat them even though we're better.
Define fair.
Let's start with low standards -- say, labor rights. Most Western countries cannot be competitive in manufacturing because of this differential.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#655Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am saying, as one of them, that TikTok gave these "vulnerable" something that other platforms don't. I have been incredibly disappointed by the queer presence on TikTok. Most of the people who I watched seemed misinformed, or were trying to sell me something. The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. Furthermore, there's not a single worse place for…
Just to add to what you said: >The shorter length of the medium encourages sensationalized media rather than longer, more reasoned takes. This is changing. Most videos I see are 1 minute long, many of them sped up 2x (perfect format for me). And you can upload videos up to 3 minutes long now - which is good enough for a lightning talk. And the time limitation is what has forced people to state their points very coher…
> But who would want to build something that (if you read the comments here!) is only seen with scorn?
> An open-source TikTok alternative that communities can sprout it would be awesome. And for that to happen, we need to talk about what makes TikTok good. Because creating a clone with all of the downsides is easy. Figuring out what made it the #1 app, I believe, is the most important part if you want TikTok to go away.
I mean, it's already been built. Platforms like Mastodon and Matrix already exist, allowing you to build your own infinite-scroller app, along with a community to fill it. Those platforms don't lack some "magic substance" that we're missing, they just have ~20 billion dollars less ad revenue, and aren't backed by an entire nation with high-profile interest in processing terabytes of global footage. TikTok is #1 because they paid to get there (and, of course, watermarked viciously)
Is that the answer you wanted? I suspect not, so I'll save the trouble of asking. The issue starts with using the app, which is your endorsement of it's functionality. Remember, the creators you watch don't see a dime of the money made from the platform: your usage is explicitly supporting Bytedance's exploitation. Do whatever you want to do, but I'd have a hard time advocating for neurodivergence and queer visibility while simultaneously supporting their oppression.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#656Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bad is a vague term, I thought we were talking about data privacy and such whereas it seems you're talking about deplatforming. My mistake there, although I would say that, especially in the context of data privacy, you probably want to avoid bad things happening. The car analogy doesn't really work, because you don't seem to be saying "TikTok is terrible but its the best we've got". In fact, you seem to be being qui…
Indeed, I was talking about deplatforming because that's what the comment I responded to brought up. Privacy-wise... OK, I'm an ex-FAANG, and that ship has sailed long ago. My cynical view is that TikTok is far down the line of entities that collect all the same data. As for the car analogy, yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say; apologies for lack of clarity. I was arguing with others who were saying "TikTo…
Deplatforming isn't really my wheelhouse so I'll stay out of that one, there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the coin who do understand the issue to the point where there isn't much value in my chipping in.
As for data privacy, you make a fair point. As I said in an earlier comment, despite my misgivings about their "take everything that isnt bolted down" approach, I continued to use Facebook even after the big hoo-ha because, like TikTok does for you, it brought me value. The only thing I would take issue with is if someone who did get value from one of those platforms and wanted to keep their privacy high ground by denying any issues, but as you've made clear, your not that person, so we can safely dismiss that now.
> And that's the thing. If you care about the downsides of TikTok, you better understand why the users go there
To be fair, this is an excellent point, and not just in the context of social media. Too often in politics for example you see peoples explanation for why the people they disagree with do and say the things they do and say is "that group are idiots/ignorant/evil, my group is intelligent/enlightened/kind". So you'll get no argument from me there.
Overall, I think this was just a bit of a miscommunication and we're actually coming from roughly the same place. I can't say I'm a big fan of TikTok, but you would probably think the same thing about Facebook or Google (I don't use facebook anymore but google still have their claws around me), so it'd be hypocritical for either of us to try to take the highground.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#657Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. No, not really. Like Facebook or Google, TikTok's revenue comes from selling ads. The advertisement business quite literally is based on how much personal info they can gather on yourself, and how they can leverage it to allow themselves and third parties to expl…
In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform. As far as I care, letting random people know random facts about me so that they're more likely to peddle me stuff that I actually like is not "exploitation", but that's merely an opinion.
> In case I didn't make it clear, providing data about yourself and making yourself more "vulnerable" to advertisers is the currency you pay with for using the platform.
No, not really. No one uses a platform like TikTok because they are eager to share their personal data to marketers, and most are entirely oblivious even to which personal data is the service gathering on them.
Just because a platform or service or system is free to access that does not mean that we are allowing mysterious third parties to spy on us.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#658Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's like saying that providing people with groceries is the secondary purpose of grocery stores, the first being collecting money in exchange for them. No, not really. Like Facebook or Google, TikTok's revenue comes from selling ads. The advertisement business quite literally is based on how much personal info they can gather on yourself, and how they can leverage it to allow themselves and third parties to expl…
The way you phrase that it sounds like these social media companies black mail you with dirty secrets they learn about you. I understand why people don't want to be packaged and sold, but a realistic view is that you're getting a service subsidized by all of this.
> The way you phrase that it sounds like these social media companies black mail you with dirty secrets they learn about you.
You may come up with the hyperboles you wish, but the truth of the matter is that a) these companies spy on their user base, b) they don't divulge or inform you about how they spy on you, c) they obviously do not defend you or have your best interests in mind, d) they don't even clarify what they do or intend to do with the data they gather on you nor ask for your informed consent about anything.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#659YouTube Shorts as a copycat service has been quite interesting to see develop. I think it works well alongside existing long-form content, sort of as an alternating filler to take a break with after watching a few longer videos.
It wouldn't surprise me if in the past, people went to TikTok/Instagram instead to fill that gap, which now is potentially being fulfilled by Shorts. Curious to see how metrics change over time with the rollout and if it has any impact on TikTok / other general short-form video app usage over time.
Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app
#660Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Far more invasive tracking False. It's actually not worse than any other social media platform. [1] It doesn't even try to exploit your browser and device, like Reddit does. [2] [1]: https://medium.com/@fs0c131y/tiktok-logs-logs-logs-e93e81626... [2]: https://smitop.com/post/reddit-whiteops/
So you are showing me that both Reddit and TikTok do fingerprinting on their users? There is no difference in any of the posts you have linked. You might need to read both of those posts again. So this is not far more invasive tracking in TikTok as of 2021 then? [0] [1] [0] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe... [1] https://www.wsj.com/video/series/inside-tiktoks-highly-secre...
No, biometric prints are used by every major social media company.