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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#651
post #571
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…

Where is this ideology that "gender dysphoria = trans" pushed? This is really bizarre -- could you give me some references?

I wouldn't think of it as an ideology. I mean, maybe it is, but it doesn't seem at all bizarre. I'm not really aware of the details, but I'd be hard-pressed to name a difference between the two. I don't (think I) have a position on the issue.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#652
post #370

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…

> What little research exists on the topic says that most of those girls will grow out of their gender dysphoria, and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them will backfire.

Except... people don't perform gender reassignment surgery on children just going through puberty.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#653

I'm surprised that the article isn't more sports-centric. This "battle," has been mostly an elite-ish, university-centric one this far. Gender studies departments were always known as bastions of avant garde quirkiness. The Germaine Greare's of the world have always been at war with someone, name-calling and whatnot. Theatrical protests aren't new, and neither is their intensity. Leakage into the real world was indir…

The battle has very much leaked off-campus, and not just in sports. One intense area of disagreement involves the rights of trans children to medically transition without their parents' knowledge or consent. Research consistently shows that most children who identity as trans revert to their original gender identity post-puberty [0]. However, more states are now enabling children to seek and obtain irreversible gender transition care on their own, without parental consent, to include surgery and hormone therapy [1]:

>[Seattle] minors age 13 and up are entitled to admit themselves for inpatient and outpatient mental health treatment without parental consent. Health insurers are forbidden from disclosing to the insured parents’ sensitive medical information of minor children—such as that regarding “gender dysphoria [and] gender affirming care.” Minors aged 13 to 18 can withhold mental health records from parents for “sensitive” conditions, which include both “gender dysphoria” and “gender-affirming care.” Insurers in Washington must cover a wide array of “gender-affirming treatments” from tracheal shaves to double mastectomies.

>Oregon passed a law permitting minors 15 and older to obtain puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries at taxpayers’ expense—all without parental consent. In 2018, California passed a similar bill for all children in foster care, age 12 and up.

Similarly, in a Canadian family court case involving a 14 year old trans child [2]:

>Attempting to persuade AB to abandon treatment for gender dysphoria; addressing AB by his birth name; referring to AB as a girl or with female pronouns whether to him directly or to third parties; shall be considered to be family violence under s. 38 of the Family Law Act.

In the event where the trans child de-transitions post-puberty, these procedures may leave them with severe body dismorphia or render them unable to produce or bear children.

I don't have kids (yet), but I had body dismorphia as a young adult. It almost killed me, but I grew out of it in time. Fortunately, it wasn't the kind that compelled me to seek life-altering medical procedures. I fear that my future child may suffer from a similar case of temporary body dismorphia, seek and obtain permanent life-altering procedures which I am legally unable to prevent, and later come to deeply regret the damage done to their body by these procedures. Again, the best data we have on trans kids shows that most choose to revert to their original gender identity post-puberty [0].

[0] https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the...

[1] https://www.city-journal.org/transgender-identifying-adolesc...

[2] https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/19/06/2019BCSC0604.htm

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostracizing people based solely on one own feeling sits squarely against the whole concept of presumption of innocence, it's the apotheosis of prejudices against coexistence.

Presumption of innocence is a legal presumption, and it exists there for very good reasons that would take too long to get into. Requiring such a presumption outside of a legal context in the way you're suggesting would undermine a different fundamental right, the freedom of association. People should have the right to associate (and disassociate) with whomever they like for whatever reasons they like, no matter how…

a and b want to associate, a want to associate with c, c don't want to associate with b, b doesn't care as long as he can associate with a, as per the grandparent comment statement, given that neither a, b and c did anything reprehensible yet.

everyone is free to act, but still a problem presents itself. what's the more just option for person a according to ethics and morals? that's the core of the conundrum, the right to associate and disassociate impacts other people freedoms, as such is the nature of interpersonal relations; of course individual have their individual freedom, but should A act on C prejudice, or in other word should C demand limits on A freedom (i.e. cancel culture)

mind you, the issue is about C own personal perceived feeling of unsafeness, not on B having done anything against C.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#655

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

On the other hand, there isn't any controversy as to whether blindness is a real condition.

People who don't qualify as legally blind but have extreme vision impairment would like to talk to you. My stepson is profoundly deaf but still has hearing and wears hearing aides to assist him, he'll often read lips during conversations to supplement that audio information and that can result in pretty big communication breakdowns.

Pretty much everything in life is a spectrum of possibilities - trying to boil those down to binary states can be helpful for some purposes but is never clean.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#656
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Interestingly enough, there's not much animosity toward trans-men. These ground exclusively concern themselves with trans-women. I second this. Maybe it's some echo chamber effect or a minority stirring shit up, but I've hardly heard anything over the years about transmen-as-men vs men-as-men. It seems like most of the focus is on transwomen-as-women vs women-as-women. Maybe we're not as vocal? Maybe we care less? I…

TERFs primarily don't focus on trans men because they see them as misguided women. You can find many TERFs blaming trans women and "gender ideology" for convincing butch-identified lesbians that they're actually straight men. Personally I think this denies trans men the dignity and autonomy to define themselves as they see fit, but then again, I would say that, I'm trans.

It's ironic that this transphobe fantasizing has led to non-conforming cis women being harassed in the bathroom. Whatever minimal problem there was with women being harassed or assaulted in the bathroom by men or AMAB people has been completely surpassed by these fantasies sparking a witch hunt.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#657

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

I think there will be rather a lot of us who are quite animated by this issue—one that doesn’t directly affect us—because of our own past experiences. As a gay man growing up in the 90s, I very acutely remember some of the public discourse around gay rights while I was a teenager. In the UK, that specifically included a coordinated campaign against mentions of homosexuality in education, with some pretty stark attemp…

Back in the nineties I remember scare campaigns about gay schoolmates in locker rooms taking advantage of other students - it is literally the same playbook.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#658
post #571
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…

Where is this ideology that "gender dysphoria = trans" pushed? This is really bizarre -- could you give me some references?

There are competing ideologies between the United States and the Rest of the World, essentially culminating in two approaches of diagnosing psychological and psychiatric health concerns.

One comes from the American Psychological Association, called the DSM and another comes from the World Health Organization called the ICD.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/10/icd-dsm

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#659
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can notice this in a few fields of popular ideologies these days, that is overcorrecting for a problem to the point of becoming exactly the thing one was originally fighting against. I've noticed this too, it's not only gender ideology but racial ideology and more. Seems to be form of ideological "pilot-induced oscillation"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation "[Pilot-induced oscillati…

Speaking of racial ideology, I honestly don't understand how we're supposed to become less racists if we're drawing so much attention to race and putting it left, right and center of any policy discussion?

Because, honestly, shutting up about it and ignoring it is the solution we tried from the 70s through the 2000s and it didn't accomplish anything - racist folk were just empowered by not being called out on it.

At least when it comes to America - there are some very deeply entrenched societal issues that we'd need to resolve to achieve anything near equality including generations of depriving wealth accumulation in communities (i.e. Native Americans).

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#660

>“shut the fuck up, TERF” (trans-exclusionary radical feminist, a slur) I stopped reading there. The protestors are framed as crazy and insane but TERF is a slur, there's no "opinion" marker on the article, it's pretty clear the author is coming from a biased perspective although framed as objective. When they can't even start the article of a controversial topic with even a weak attempt at objectivity I know enough…

Why don't you quote the whole sentence there? > A flyer with an image of a gun and text reading “shut the fuck up, terf” (trans-exclusionary radical feminist, a slur) was circulating.

How does that help??? TERF is not a slur, it is definitely used as an epithet, but only the targets of the term call it a slur making it obvious the authors are sympathetic to the terfs.
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