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Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

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Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#651

Post by vel0city »

majormajor wrote: post #480
ravenstine wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often the man claiming that men don’t care about a woman’s education, goes on to say that what matters is that the woman knows, for example, how to cook. That, too, has never made sense to me. I live in a country where for the childless, eating out good healthy food is not appreciably more expensive than cooking at home, and a woman who chooses to take advantage of that and use her valuable time for other pursuits,…

You think a better relationship would be built on a "cook and clean and take care of kids for me" role? I can pay to have that done for me these days!

$15/hr * 40 hrs/week * 4 weeks/mo = $2,400/mo and that's only during working hours. Which, chances are you're going to pay more than that, as that doesn't include that person's healthcare, that's pre-tax, and more.

Sure one can pay for a child care center, but that's not covering the whole cleaning and doing the chores around the house. Its also only 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

An at-home caregiver (note: I didn't say wife either spouse can do) can provide an immense amount of value.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#652

Post by cjohnson318 »

voldacar wrote: post #401
cjohnson318 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. There's nothing wrong with the way female teachers teach.

I don't think you get it. Young men today grow up almost entirely in female-dominated spaces. That is not normal historically. In fact it would be strange if it didn't lead to any pathologies.

> Young men today grow up almost entirely in female-dominated spaces.

That's bullshit. In American government, women make up roughly 30% of leadership positions. At work, unless you're a waiter, nurse, primary/secondary school teacher, or in HR, you're surrounded by men, and you only see more and more men the higher up you go.

> That is not normal historically.

That's asinine bullshit. Historical norms are not a model for current norms. A lot of people have plumbing, electricity, and representative government now, which is not normal historically. What I'm saying is, your appeal to historical norms is arbitrary and thoroughly shit.

Y'all are making women out to be devils and they're not. There's a college word for that (I had to look it up) it's called "misogyny". Ain't nothing wrong with women, or having women teachers, or women legislators, or women doctors and lawyers. Jfc, I literally can't believe I have to spell all this out in 2021.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#653

Post by wearywanderer »

mycologos wrote: post #591
pcbro141 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, on mainstream TV/articles about declining marriage/birthrates in the West, it's common to see criticisms about modern Western men. How women can't find life partners because men aren't masculine enough anymore, don't want to grow up, don't get educated etc. But very rarely do you see any criticism or even questioning about modern Western women and what men want in a woman. Only what women want. The…

> Given that the vast majority breakups are initiated by women Hey, there's actually a study [1] about this! > The author uses a new longitudinal study of relationships in the US, the How Couples Meet and Stay Together surveys, to examine the gender of who wanted the breakup for both marital and nonmarital heterosexual relationships for the first time. The results show that only in marriages are the majority of break…

> The results show that only in marriages are the majority of breakups wanted by the female partner. Men and women in nonmarital heterosexual relationships in the US are equally likely to want to break up.

Incidentally, the courts generally don't get involved in the later sort of breakup. If a for-profit industry were made for nonmarital breakups as divorce attorneys have made for marital breakups, I bet this discrepancy would narrow.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#654

Post by fb13 »

twh270 wrote: post #648
flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Yup. I've had many conversations about this topic with my son (and on occasion some of his friends -- both male and female), since he was in middle school (a decade ago). They're well aware of how men are portrayed versus women. We've transitioned from "A women's place is in the home (barefoot, pregnant, and cooking a delicious meal for her husband)" to "A woman's place is whatever she wants, and men are the reason f…

It's the chicken egg problem. Woman birthed man. Who's to blame?

In all seriousness, if we are to succeed as a society, then ignorantly maintaining what are mostly over generalizations and stereotypes related to gender is a failing proposition. And that involves anything that existed pre-the-whole-world-is-now-connected.

That means

> It's not a binary decision, people. We don't need to decide which gender/sex is "better" or "more right".

But, for most of our parents it was binary and decision was obvious.

People fantasize about going back to that. Even the young kids, Gen Z, which is most concerning. Something alarming is that this comes from a feeling of helplessness. That and similar feelings explains the increase in massacres, hatred, and even why terrorists traditionally came from countries in turmoil. The kids need to be feeling hopeful not helpless.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#655

Post by etempleton »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

I see this a good bit. And it is hard to get into the psychology of the individuals. I would work any job I could get if I was unemployed. I have taken retail jobs when I was unemployed or we could use extra income. My wife has done the same.

A few people I know come to mind that reminds me of your nephews and I simply cannot understand it. Right now there are hiring signs up in almost every business in my town. I would rather work (if I could) than take unemployment even if it would be a pay cut.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#656

Post by ip26 »

carrolldunham wrote: post #553
vsareto wrote: post #498

Idk, playing video games all day without any responsibilities seems like they’ve straight-up won life. Most of us have to work for that privilege or be born with a trust fund in our name. Only losing side to this path is a lack of romance or intimacy. No one’s likely gonna remember you anyway, for better or worse. Might as well enjoy your time on Earth with some of the most immersive storytelling humanity has invente…

Yes, you have to ask how many people don't realize their critiquing has an unconscious jealousy behind it. I used to be a student bum and lived in a van which prompted a guy from a house in the street to come out and berate me, at first he said I was scaring his kids but we kept talking because he seemed to want mostly to reconcile in his mind how I lived like this. He had several "but don't you.. but don't you want"…

There certainly is something enviable in someone who can be completely happy, content, and satisfied as a bum living in a van. But I don't think the average young adult man living at home is doing so because they have reached Enlightenment.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#657

Post by amanaplanacanal »

harryh wrote: post #411
toomuchtodo wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But who raises the next generation under that scenario? Immigrants, of course, but what does that say about what American society has become? https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/05/24/will-birt... (Will births in the US rebound? Probably not.) People respond to incentives. Living and having children in the US is expensive, so the results are what you’d expect. Maybe we don’t need replacement rate, except f…

except for the part of an economic system that requires unending growth This is such a tired phrase. Like if we had socialism or communism or some other -ism it wouldn't matter. But that's just not true. The issue is math and the fact that prime age working people (25-55ish) are the ones that, for the most part, make stuff. If you have a shrinking population then the % of the population that makes stuff gets a lot sm…

Only if productivity is flat. If productivity grows faster than the population shrinks you can still have a growing economy with fewer people.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#658

Post by cjohnson318 »

NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #533
cjohnson318 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. There's nothing wrong with the way female teachers teach.

> Teachers 'give higher marks to girls' > When it comes to teachers' marking, the study says there is a consistent pattern of girls' work being "marked up". > Teachers are said to reward "organisational skills, good behaviour and compliance" rather than objectively marking pupils' work. https://www.bbc.com/news/education-31751672

This study did not study male and female teachers independently, so this does support the claim that female teachers are any different (or worse) than male teachers.

Furthermore, it is notoriously difficult to get to causation from correlation. If you'd like to read more about this, check out Judea Pearl's work.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#659

Post by gnatman »

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

>>There doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men

Other than the current one, you mean?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#660

Post by wearywanderer »

bigdollopenergy wrote: post #485
majormajor wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is what you believe men want in a woman, that's being unfulfilled for these men? The common male complaint I see isn't "all these women I date are simply not going to fulfill what I need," it's "no women will date me at all" which points at a breakdown in the process way before the point of "what are these men looking for." Hard to imagine these men even have any idea of what they're actually looking for in a re…

> Given that the vast majority breakups are initiated by women I suspect what the poster meant to write was that most divorces are initiated by women. Which is a different statistic but still somewhat relevant. It's actually true, it's around 69% that are initiated by women. Here's the study i quickly found for it which seems credible https://www.asanet.org/press-center/press-releases/women-mor... Interestingly it ex…

> Whether that's actually true or not, I don't actually know, but it's still widely believed and influencing men's behavior/plans all the same.

On average I think it's probably not true. Most men probably stay married, and most divorces probably aren't ruinous. I say "most", but I don't mean a comfortable majority. The ruinous divorces happen a lot. I've seen it destroy more men I know/knew than alcohol or any drug. Even if it only happens one in six times, that's Russian Roulette odds. Those are bad odds.

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