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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#651

Post by msrenee »

throwkeep wrote: post #493
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have quotes that are sexist? The only quote I have seen in articles that is supposedly sexist is about Bay Area women.

People are just taking quotes out of context: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who...

I'm almost more disgusted with the context. Even the self-sufficient woman he claims to be attracted to isn't described as a person. No thoughts or feelings or personality. Just a physically description and a chance to make it known that he had sex.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#652

Post by cercatrova »

sudosysgen wrote: post #568
jlawson wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both your examples the person laboring is forced to labor for one specific lord/owner. In our economy, you can go work for anyone, or for yourself, or to some degree even not work at all and collect various social benefits. Comparing programmers in 2021 to medieval serfs or ancient debt-slaves is literally absurd. Programmers don't even really need any substantial capital to do their own thing. You can start a bus…

No, it's not. Serfs in a lot of Europe had the possibility to change their lords. Either by asking another lord to buy them, or by leaving to a city or to another lord's land without being taken back for a year, in the example of England. The capital for a programmer's startup is not the laptop, its the intellectual property. That costs way more than a 1000$, typically the equivalent of at least a few tens of thousan…

The difference is in the degree of which one can switch. The vast majority of serfs, even if they might have been able to, did not switch out their lords. Programmers and really any white collar workers can do so readily and easily, every few years even.

So to compare these things is not equivalent.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#653

Post by philwelch »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

> Soon we will have struggle sessions at work.

Soon? It’s already happening.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#654

Post by msrenee »

crackercrews wrote: post #609
taurath wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace, having someone publicly espouse explicit bias should come with some consequences. The glass ceiling exists. You’re saying it shouldn’t be based on an out of context fragment, and I agree but often in those situations in context can mean the same thing. Case by case for sure but if…

> With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace Researchers haven't found a link between implicit bias and behavior. [1] From the abstract: "No causal relationship: Implicit bias doesn't affect behavior at all." Is there more recent research that contradicts this? 1: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190802144415.h.…

Do you have a link to the actual paper? This is essentially a news article about a paper that was not published when this article was written.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#655

Post by astrange »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

> This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work.

Didn't his book talk about him having sex with his coworkers in the closet at work?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#656

Post by deelowe »

Areading314 wrote: post #512
langitbiru wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the future, people will start to embrace pseudonymous accounts. People will not share any opinions with their real identities. But they'll do it with their pseudonymous accounts. This can go further than sharing opinions. People's livelihood will be based on their pseudonymous accounts. It happens already in cryptocurrencies projects. Some accounts who work in these projects are pseudonymous accounts. They…

This is also what people do in autocratic regimes. Effectively we have created a "democratic autocracy" by means of allowing mobs of people to steamroll people online and destroy their reputations.

For now... How long will it be until this form of authoritarianism consolidates? The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

And as others have alluded to, which I’ll state more bluntly, I’m sick and tired of people feeling like they need to comment on my morals/lifestyle. Especially at work. I literally had someone tell me I shouldn’t have pictures on my phone of me taking my kids fishing the other day, because someone might see them and get offended and report it HR. Pics taken on my phone... wit my family... during the weekend.... and I need to be worried about HR? W.T. everloving F?!

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#657

Post by taurath »

crackercrews wrote: post #609
taurath wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace, having someone publicly espouse explicit bias should come with some consequences. The glass ceiling exists. You’re saying it shouldn’t be based on an out of context fragment, and I agree but often in those situations in context can mean the same thing. Case by case for sure but if…

> With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace Researchers haven't found a link between implicit bias and behavior. [1] From the abstract: "No causal relationship: Implicit bias doesn't affect behavior at all." Is there more recent research that contradicts this? 1: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190802144415.h.…

Absolutely, and you’ll find many other studies that contradict the above. Plus good old fashioned common sense.

Here’s a meta review. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01913...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#658

Post by crackercrews »

msrenee wrote: post #654
crackercrews wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace Researchers haven't found a link between implicit bias and behavior. [1] From the abstract: "No causal relationship: Implicit bias doesn't affect behavior at all." Is there more recent research that contradicts this? 1: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190802144415.h.…

Do you have a link to the actual paper? This is essentially a news article about a paper that was not published when this article was written.

https://doi.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fpspa0000160

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#659

Post by philwelch »

PeterisP wrote: post #451
0xy wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, including the US. If an employee was a member of a fascist party it'd quite literally be illegal to fire them on that basis.

No, political beliefs are a protected class in practically every first world country, but excluding the US; in most states (excluding, IIRC, California - which matters a lot here) it would be legal for a private employer to fire an employee for being a member of the Democrat or Republican party. The key employee anti-discrimination law is the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits employers from di…

Whether or not it’s strictly illegal to, for example, blacklist people from their professions for being suspected members of the Communist Party, at some point we agreed it was a bad thing to do so.

I guess the question now is, was there a general principle behind that, or are we just cool with Stalinism now?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#660

Post by crackercrews »

taurath wrote: post #657
crackercrews wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With how much we know about implicit bias causing so many problems in equity for things like promotions and opportunity in the workplace Researchers haven't found a link between implicit bias and behavior. [1] From the abstract: "No causal relationship: Implicit bias doesn't affect behavior at all." Is there more recent research that contradicts this? 1: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190802144415.h.…

Absolutely, and you’ll find many other studies that contradict the above. Plus good old fashioned common sense. Here’s a meta review. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01913...

That's not more recent, it's a decade older than the meta analysis showing that there are not material behavioral effects.
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