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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#651

Post by pilsetnieks »

jeromegv wrote: post #554
pilsetnieks wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah John Gruber has really become a shill over the last few years I remember reading sentiments to that effect since 2004. I doubt he's getting paid directly, so he could only be a shill in a very loose sense of the word. He does get paid in review units and access, though. I think he's maybe overly enthusiastic about the good stuff, and skews toward the positive when matters are questionable but he has called out…

FYI, they have to ship back the review units. Of course there is a financial aspect to the fact he gets the unit first and can publish the review and get the eyeballs, but it's just something to know about Apple, they don't give anything.

I get that, I didn't mean to imply he gets to keep them but as you say, just getting them a week in advance is a benefit.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#652

Post by [deleted] »

wpietri wrote: post #646
Apocryphon wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the iPhone and iPod, it's a revolutionary entrant from the consumer point of view in terms of user experience. And like the iPhone and iPod, from a technical point of view, it's merely a very competent iteration down a natural evolutionary pathway, in a preexisting product type.

I disagree. The iPhone was revolutionary in that it made smartphones and phone apps accessible to the mass market, unleashing a wave of change in how people live, work, and play. M1 Macs will be used basically like the previous Macs, but somewhat faster and somewhat longer without plugging in. So I don't think this qualifies as a revolutionary change.

[deleted]

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#653

Post by myrandomcomment »

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #615

Patrick Moorhead is a stock analyst for the chip industry. In Wall Street terms, he is aligned with Intel others who are shaking in their boots right now. He's not going to say that the M1 is great until Intel/NVidia/etc. allow him to. These pundits know which side of his bread is buttered. He knows that his clients were caught off-guard by the M1 announcement. He needs to give his clients enough time to sell their I…

Dvorak, IIRC was an OS/2 fan vs. Windows so..

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#654

Post by Apocryphon »

wpietri wrote: post #646
Apocryphon wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the iPhone and iPod, it's a revolutionary entrant from the consumer point of view in terms of user experience. And like the iPhone and iPod, from a technical point of view, it's merely a very competent iteration down a natural evolutionary pathway, in a preexisting product type.

I disagree. The iPhone was revolutionary in that it made smartphones and phone apps accessible to the mass market, unleashing a wave of change in how people live, work, and play. M1 Macs will be used basically like the previous Macs, but somewhat faster and somewhat longer without plugging in. So I don't think this qualifies as a revolutionary change.

I think the M1 Macs are a precursor for a truly revolutionary (for consumers) Apple ARM computer. Whether that will be realized with the M1X/M2 next year or further on, it remains to be seen.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#655

Post by internet2000 »

sokoloff wrote: post #644
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #615

Patrick Moorhead is a stock analyst for the chip industry. In Wall Street terms, he is aligned with Intel others who are shaking in their boots right now. He's not going to say that the M1 is great until Intel/NVidia/etc. allow him to. These pundits know which side of his bread is buttered. He knows that his clients were caught off-guard by the M1 announcement. He needs to give his clients enough time to sell their I…

Was it really that shocking for Apple to announce they were shipping their own silicon? That stuck me as a pretty open (non-)secret and I’m not even in that industry. I doubt Intel was actually caught unaware.

It wasn't a surprise they were doing it. It absolute was a surprise for Intel that it ended up being this good.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#656

Post by detaro »

blunte wrote: post #626
YesThatTom2 wrote: post #615

Patrick Moorhead is a stock analyst for the chip industry. In Wall Street terms, he is aligned with Intel others who are shaking in their boots right now. He's not going to say that the M1 is great until Intel/NVidia/etc. allow him to. These pundits know which side of his bread is buttered. He knows that his clients were caught off-guard by the M1 announcement. He needs to give his clients enough time to sell their I…

Is Intel really so blind that they didn't see this coming or even have detailed inside info about it? I would wager that they knew, but execs chose to protect their personal short term interests overt those of the company and its long term shareholders. This is typical modern US publicly traded company behavior.

What would have been the choice they should have made that was not protecting their short term interests and better for the company?

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#657

Post by ogre_codes »

ekianjo wrote: post #622
ogre_codes wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lousy use of the word "Open" in a discipline where Open has a fairly specific meaning. I mentioned that as well though. Using your goofy definition of Open, x86 is no more "Open" than ARM. Pinebook and Raspberry Pi both use no bullshit ARM setups. With ARM, how accessible the architecture is is 100% dependent on the implementation which vary greatly by manufacturer.

> Raspberry Pi both use no bullshit ARM setups. Seriously? You need a blob from Broadcom to even boot the thing, and you call that a no bullshit ARM setup? I am astounded.

Compared to the amount of bullshit we had to to deal with in the 90s and 00s getting Linux running on a laptop, it's a walk in the park. Often it was a choice between mediocre FLOSS drivers or binary blobs from 2-3 private parties... when things even had drivers at all. It's been a while, but how many laptops lack wifi support or require proprietary drivers to work now?

Are the FLOSS drivers for Nvidia's cards great now? How many years have people been hacking on that project to make them work as well as they do?

What people are describing as "Open" is actually an enormous amount of work on the part of developers and the grudging support of hardware vendors after decades of struggle.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#658

Post by tim-- »

nemosaltat wrote: post #631
innagadadavida wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all GNU user land tools and libraries work on BSD and you can install them fairly easily with brew. Unless you are doing Linux kernel development, there is little you’ll miss out on.

Mostly agree, and upvoted, however I think it’s important to acknowledge (in thread about M1 Macs) that full brew support will be a large undertaking for M1.

It seems to be going well so far. I would say it's around 70% of the way there[0].

What's left is a few major runtimes (OpenJDK, golang is waiting for 1.16 to be released). Many of the packages that are not properly supported either require golang [4], rust [2], mono [3] or java to support arm64.

It's impressive the amount of work Apple has done behind the scenes get M1 support in many open source packages, [1] for example.

  [0] https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/7857
  [1] https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/mono/commit/3f2278e081484e6616ee5892895f999610453ca9
  [2] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/73908
  [3] https://github.com/mono/mono/pull/20014
  [4] https://github.com/golang/go/issues/38485

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#659

Post by perryizgr8 »

chokeartist wrote: post #63
perryizgr8 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can you do on iphone that can't be done better on an android phone?

You have reduced the scope of the argument. It is a question of efficiency, performance, and battery life. iPhone beats Android in all over those categories. Of course iPhone and Android can do all the same tasks. One just does it a lot better efficiency and power wise.

How does iPhone beat Note20 in battery life if the Note lasts longer?

How does the chip performance matter if the Note feels faster in opening apps and scrolling due to the refresh rate?

How does efficiency matter if the Note holds more apps in memory for faster task switching?

How does a faster chip matter if the image processing is way superior in the Note so your photos almost always come out better?

The difference is subjective. I would have expected it to be objective like in the M1 laptop. The new air and pro absolutely obliterate other comparable systems in every metric.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#660

Post by x87678r »

vetinari wrote: post #293
mlyle wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualcomm, Samsung, Cavium/Marvell, and nVidia don't count? Not to mention ARM's own cores...

Samsung stopped Exynos development a year ago. Cavium is basically dead (yes, bought out by Marvell). Qualcomm is interested only in mobile SoCs at mobile SoCs volumes where they can also sell radios, and Nvidia was traditionally not capable of delivering anything at promised power consumption.

MediaTek 6nm chips next year https://www.gizmochina.com/2020/09/10/mediatek-to-announce-6...
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