Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 780 posts

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#651

Post by sjy »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #222
alkonaut wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't assume that "we" are happy about that. You might be; others are not. I don't want to suggest everyone is happy with the status quo, but it's at least not one of the top items on everyone's agenda for change. > Unbreakable encryption should be available to everyone, and straightforward for everyone to use, and used by default rather than only for "sensitive" information. Unbreakable encryption should be so wid…

One of many angles is "perhaps you trust your government (or perhaps not), but do you trust every government with a backdoor? Do you trust everyone who has gotten hold of it? Do you trust that it can't be broken or stolen or abused?" We need to very clearly and universally make the message clear: there's unbreakable encryption, and there's broken encryption, nothing in between. Anything that purports to be in between…

Where do the existing "readily available, off-the-shelf encryption solutions" mentioned in the link fall in this dichotomy? Are they unbreakable because no network administrator can read my WhatsApp messages? Or are they broken, because Apple can push out an OS update and steal messages without the user knowing?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#652

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

fakedang wrote: post #628
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UK never had a Big Brother set up I don't even know where to start.

I mean sure there is the GCHQ and all of its shenanigans, but none closely resembling a system where the police track your movements every single second via video feed.

Well then there is nothing to worry about haha, you sure seem like a splendid lad and the coppers won't ever knock on your door for wrong-think will they, because that has never happened right, that simply isn't a thing in the UK, couldn't be me I surely have only officially approved opinions haha I love this new law

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#653

Post by learnstats2 »

dane-pgp wrote: post #311
iso947 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They push a button on a screen, which is publicly recorded as a vote for, against, abstain or not present. Nowhere near superior systems like the U.K. where members leave te room, spend a couple of hours queuing to go into one of two rooms, and then see the result later in the day.

I assume you are being sarcastic and actually think that the UK's "analogue" system of voting is worse because it is slower. Let me assure you that making Westminster votes quicker is not the metric we should be optimising for. https://boingboing.net/2019/03/26/jfc-fml-jfc.html > But actually, a group of Swedish MEPs have revealed that they pressed the wrong button, and have asked to have the record corrected. They h…

Counter-example in the UK: where the method of voting is walking into a room with your chums, MPs sometimes have to say that they "accidentally" walked into the wrong room:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-16746389

It's clear your example that they (Swedish MEPs) were all agreed to vote in this direction, since they each press their own button. It's most likely that they didn't understand the significance of the vote and thought better of it afterwards.

It's their one job, to vote.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#655

Post by bigbizisverywyz »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #544
freeflight wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland and several other Eurpean countries have very high rates of gun ownership, but low rates of gun violence. They also have vastly stricter gun regulation laws, and while ownership rates are high in some, the US is an extreme outlier and no other country comes even close. Because nobody in any European country thinks they have a "right" to own a gun, most of them could if they wanted to, but they simply do…

The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fuel…

>The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO.

And the reason for that is simple - marketing.

Here in Switzerland I basically see no guns unless I go to the shooting club. There's none sold in the shops, there's none advertised in newspapers, tv or on the radio. And there is definitely no gun offered when opening a bank account.

Basically if you want a gun for whatever reason - usually for recreational shooting at the shooting club, then you have to go out and look for it.

In the US I have the feeling that they're marketed as a penis extension, and you're not a proper man unless you shoot things, with the view that you'd be quite happy to project a slug of lead into somebody else at high velocity to prove you're more of a man than they are.

To solve the problem in the US I think you need to ban the advertising - like cigarettes.

Caution: This weapon inflicts pain suffering and death to others. User may be incarcerated for murder if ever used. If in a situation of conflict, gun only increases likelihood of extreme violence - leave at home.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#656

Post by throwawaylolx »

WalterBright wrote: post #348
Nasrudith wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - it is goddamn tiring can't the professional emotional manipulators that call themselves politicians play on any other emotion than fear to get elected?

The vast bulk of the fear mongering I see is coming from the mass media, in an attempt to drive clicks and sell newspapers, and get their preferred candidate elected. For example, in the weeks leading up to the election, CNN ran a sidebar on the screen to continuously show current statistics on covid deaths, all day. The sidebar vanished on election day, and has not returned, even though covid death rates are worse t…

>covid deaths

You mean cases? They usually go for the biggest number they can display rather than the most informative.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#657

Post by dane-pgp »

learnstats2 wrote: post #653
dane-pgp wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are being sarcastic and actually think that the UK's "analogue" system of voting is worse because it is slower. Let me assure you that making Westminster votes quicker is not the metric we should be optimising for. https://boingboing.net/2019/03/26/jfc-fml-jfc.html > But actually, a group of Swedish MEPs have revealed that they pressed the wrong button, and have asked to have the record corrected. They h…

Counter-example in the UK: where the method of voting is walking into a room with your chums, MPs sometimes have to say that they "accidentally" walked into the wrong room: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-16746389 It's clear your example that they (Swedish MEPs) were all agreed to vote in this direction, since they each press their own button. It's most likely that they didn't understand the significance of the…

I'm not sure if that UK counter-example is as strong as you suggest:

> A spokesman for Mr Stunell, MP for Hazel Grove, said he had voted against the Labour amendment "as he was supposed to" and had gone to get a drink of water for a fellow minister when he found that lobby doors had been "locked".

> "He was temporarily on the wrong side but sanity prevailed and they let him out," he said.

A funny story, but not a legally significant outcome.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#658

Post by Retric »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #567
Retric wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D printing is one of the more useful ways to securely backup up encryption key’s. Just ensure the only place they exist is inside an object and not only are they durable, but tamper resistant as someone can’t just photocopy the key.

Could you elaborate on that? I couldn't find anything from a few Google searches.

3D printers can make solid objects with internal structures.

It’s the same basic idea as an envelope, as in you need to open it to see what’s inside. However, opening it up inherently breaks the object so if you have it unbroken then it’s obvious that nobody has done so. XRay’s being an obvious risk.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#659

Post by Retric »

DJBunnies wrote: post #539
Retric wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D printing is one of the more useful ways to securely backup up encryption key’s. Just ensure the only place they exist is inside an object and not only are they durable, but tamper resistant as someone can’t just photocopy the key.

That would be a 2D print.

You’re 3D printing inside the object so people can’t just copy the number. Think envelope.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#660

Post by Veedrac »

Krisando wrote: post #623
Veedrac wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I know I'm just attracting downvotes, your points, in order: 1) a: It's really not that hard to think of ways to solve backdoor problems with a mix of technical and social approaches. For example, having shared keys burned onto silicon, making physical access mandatory, and split between both the law enforcement and the company, so that both parties must knowingly engage. b: Most software already practically ba…

> but about networks which are systematically and in actuality doing things like trafficking children for sexual abuse The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. --Adolf Hitler

I believe this is a misquote.

It's also a morally horrific line of argument. Like saying you shouldn't care about shooting civilians because bad people in the past have used human shields as a war tactic.

These are not imagined people being hurt, spun out of whole cloth.

Post reply on HN