Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

capitolhillautonomous.zone

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 920 posts

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#651

Post by jiscariot »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #473
preinheimer wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So one might expect the taco joint to be the most popular. But explicitly the parent is saying that the taco joint is more popular than all of the burger joints _combined_. Which is not what I would have guessed.

If we are talking cable, I believe it. I haven’t had cable for the last couple of decades, I would venture that not many liberals, who tend to be younger, have cable. If you were going to start a cable channel now, who would you pander to: the audience that doesn’t have that much cable (liberals) or the audience that does (conservatives).

Median age (2017)[1]: CNN 60 Fox News 65 MSNBC 65

From my peer group (around forty), rather than liberal vs. conservative breakdown, I'd say those who reluctantly subscribe to cable are sports fans.

[1]https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/heres-the-median-age-of-the-...

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#652

Post by krzyk »

darkerside wrote: post #592
TheGrim999 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the protestors also don't benefit from chaos? Neither side is innocent here. Any time the police are pushed to the point where they use force on the protestors, mass media is then awash with out of context clips of the event, claiming police brutality, drumming up more support for the protestors and their cause. The more chaos, the better it is for the protester's message. There's lots of peaceful protests…

Because they are protests against the police, and the police don't like that? Simplest answer I can see

Use of force by police in those protests results in more protests.

So the simplest answer is actually: protesters benefit from police using force. (because they'll get more protesters, more media coverage etc.)

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#653

Post by AnHonestComment »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #601
DenisM wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police follow orders from their chain of command that goes up to an elected official. You can petition the elected official, occupy their building, grill them in the media, and vote them out if you convince the other citizens. For example the knee-to-the-neck move was a part of the "orders" in that it was part of standard procedure and it is now being revised and removed. Similarly the tear gas was part of the pr…

> This is why we tolerate the police for a few hundred years now - on occasion they cause violence that's predictable and can be influenced. The point of these protests is that the violence is not occasional. It is endemic , and attempts to stop it stretch back centuries . It has persisted across the country, under both progressive and conservative politicians, despite many, many attempts to eliminate it. If the viol…

Police are safer than cars, by an order of magnitude.

The only violence I’ve seen from police that doesn’t seem like an anomaly is violence that protestors incited by starting a conflict with the police.

So, empirically, it seems like the violence is occasional except when you go asking for it and the protestors just have a problem with authority and society at large.

It’s why their complaints are big on individual sob stories but lacking statistics to back them up.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#654

Post by SkyBelow »

woodruffw wrote: post #140
solidasparagus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

> Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long. At least one counterexample to this is Exarcheia[1] in Athens, which has been relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years. I was there about a year ago and was struck by how both peaceful and lively it was. Nowhere in Athens felt nearly as alive. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia

Does self policing constitute anarchist? The few times I've dug into the background of anarchist communities have shown they do have some enforcement of social standards, and can effectively be viewed as a smaller scale government that the larger government has decided to take a more hands off approach compare to other areas of similar size that attempt to act legally independent.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#655

Post by asdff »

armada651 wrote: post #559
ascagnel_ wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll never see a fully "fair" news channel, for two reasons: - Humans will bring their implicit biases to any reporting they do; I feel like it's better for the reader to make implicit biases explicit, and call out where the writer feels uncomfortable. - If you try to cut humans out of the loop and replace them with algorithms, you're creating two problems: algorithms will have implicit biases from their creators,…

You can make a fair news channel if you give a news channel the right incentives. You need to create a news outlet where biased reporting is an actual scandal. The problem in the US is that news outlets are expected to be biased and so they take full advantage of that to make their news more entertaining. These news channels are driven by add revenue. And divisive, incendiary reporting is the best way to get people t…

What about wire services? AP and reuters reports are so brief and to the point they read like the wikipedia paragraph that will shortly plagiarize them.

Apart from that, you are perhaps asking for data devoid of biased analysis. You can keep up with current events like this on your own. There is plenty of public data on anything that you can analyze yourself and draw your own conclusions. Instead of reading business news, read SEC filings. Instead of reading about coronavirus, graph the raw data and make your own models. Skip the sensationalist science and health articles, and go right for the peer reviewed article. Open that layer on GIS yourself. Ignore medium blogs and read the actual documentation. Become your own data scientist.

This all takes a lot of mental effort and time, which few people have, so most people actually prefer to read summary articles from biased sources that reinforce their existing world view.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#656

Post by Auracle »

zorpner wrote: post #299
Aeolun wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about witch hunts and lynching perhaps?

Both of these represent the same phenomenon as the modern police force, which is class oppression (in the first case anti-intellectual misogyny, in the second the same base racism underlying the current struggle). Communities can and will self-regulate, when let out from under the thumb of state-sanctioned violence.

What is “the community” supposed to do if there’s a murder or rape?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#657

Post by rideontime »

Fellshard wrote: post #579
iron0013 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, after all the events of the last two weeks, is anyone still willing to take a police-person’s word as truth?

Because some people are still rational enough to treat individuals on an individual basis.

And this particular individual has already had to walk back false statements: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-prote...

> The Seattle Police Department walked back its claim, widely repeated in the news media, that denizens of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone are extorting businesses.

> "That has not happened affirmatively," Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in a news conference Thursday afternoon, adding that the police department had based earlier claims on anecdotal reports, including in the news and on social media. "We haven't had any formal reports of this occurring."

> That contradicts earlier statements from the police.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#658

Post by hirsin »

acomjean wrote: post #635
undefined1 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portraying it as some mad max wasteland is absurd, but so is referring to it as even pseudo utopian. It's not sustainable in any way and there wasn't exactly a democratic process by which the residents of Seattle agreed to having a section of their city turned into an autonomous zone. Though it could be an interesting experiment to do this somewhere, I think it'd have to go through a vote.

burning man?

Basically. Between covid masks and the music, nice weather, art, co-op style stuff it looks and feels very Burning Man. Which is a popular event for folks here anyway so perhaps unsurprising.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#659

Post by jwilber »

namrog84 wrote: post #611
jwilber wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious answer. Hoping for an actual reply but if feels like you’re just baiting given your “white supremacist” line in quotes (???). If you mean to ask what would happen if white people took it over? Having been through chaz a few times, the population is overwhelming white (Seattle itself is only ~7% black). Capitol Hill is itself a white, gentrified area. Or do you mean actual white supremacists? Charleston went d…

Not OP. But lots of people just use single quotes for emphasis. And not neccesarily the way i think you think it to mean. Not sure OP intention but kust wanted to say lots of people use single quote to imply italicized(emphasis).

I guess we can wait for their response to find out. I’m genuinely curious to hear about the merciless shutdowns the preview.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#660

Post by asdff »

mcv wrote: post #475
ashtonkem wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has never been to Seattle, I am shocked by how bad your police department appears to be. Even the LAPD behaved ... well, less bad from what I’d heard. Flash bangs? Those are for assaulting buildings, not crowd control.

I think over the past few decades, there's been a movement towards increasingly aggressive use of some police weapons. Using tear gas to disperse a crowd is also needlessly aggressive. When I was a kid, Dutch police used water for that. And only when it was an actual riot. I've seen videos of police tasering someone who wasn't the least bit violent, but simply uncooperative. That's not what tasers are for. But if som…

Police used tear gas on my college campus after we were celebrating winning the national football championship. If the army did that, it would be a war crime.
Post reply on HN