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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#651

Post by rovolo »

sergiotapia wrote: post #602
champagneben wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wanted poorer, minority kids to have a chance at a good education and high standards as well? Wasn't very shocking, though the title was incendiary.

He tries to do that not by elevating people, but by dragging people down. I'm not OK with this.

I transcribed the clip, and I don't see where he's "dragging people down". My guess is that you're reacting to "as a white male in society I'm given a lot of privilege that I didn't earn" and "I think it's really important those kids learn how to read just as well as I had the opportunity to learn how to read." It sounds to me exactly like he's trying to "elevate people", but you're reading it as "drag people down". Why? This is confusing to me.

First person) Every teacher who's using it basically is saying this is inspiring a closer and more engaged student body. So the people that are actually using it like it. And again in terms of the local control, you still have local control. So if you want higher standards, if that's really, if that is your genuine point, then you can go ahead and do it. You can do the higher standard. And the process was indeed totally transparent. And when [garbled] we'll move on to David and Bill.

Second person) Um, I'm not paid to be here either. I'm just an interested teacher who helped write the standards. And the reason why I helped write the standards and the reason why I am here today is that as a white male in society I'm given a lot of privilege that I didn't earn. And as a result ... [scattered boos from the audience] ... I think it's really important that all kids have an equal opportunity to learn how to read. I think I had a set of advantages as a result of who I was, not ???. And when I walk into places like Roberto Clemente high school on ??? side of Chicago, I think it's really important those kids learn how to read just as well as I had the opportunity to learn how to read. And ??? created an equitable education opportunity for all kids. I think this is actually the greatest lesson we can teach our kids.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#652

Post by jojobas »

mesaframe wrote: post #610
jojobas wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What subjects are you after? Also, the enjoyment was not supposed to be from reading the book, it was from passing the exam.

Not OP, if you know any great English translated Linear Algebra title or statistics.

Unfortunately the ones I know were not translated.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#653

Post by CalChris »

azernik wrote: post #626
CalChris wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but minus the math; what math there was in 61A was easy. 61A didn't really expect much prerequisite either, but then it took off quickly. A lot of work but not intellectually very hard. It was then taught in Scheme which no one knew. Scheme is an elegant language which we never used again. SICP was the course text which no one ever read. What I really remember was EE40 taking like a week to explain Ohm's Law. I t…

61A was easy in terms of math, but hard in terms of everything else. Every student I met who had never programmed before taking 61A found it intellectually quite challenging, both before and after the switch to Python; even without math, thinking in terms of computation and execution is not natural. Given that second-hand experience, I found the excision of all of SICP's math from the curriculum to be quite a good ch…

(As you know) most of the lower div EECS courses inherit slide decks and the coverage is set by the department. CS70 has a wonderful set of notes which should be a book. I regularly go through the CS61C, CS152 and CS252 decks; those are great Berkeley classes. CS162 has a good set and then Kubi has his which even better. Hilfinger's CS61A notes were quite good. The deck the EE40 prof used was based on a previous semester and it was pretty good. It's just that the class is an insane amount of material and work.

There was an intent behind the work. All of the lower div classes are hard with a massive amount of content. But you can show up a Berkeley from a substandard high school on the wrong side of the tracks and blow it out of the water; a buddy of mine was like that and went to Columbia for his PhD. It's very simple. You just have to work. Immediately. Day one. I don't think Berkeley EECS rewards creativity. Indeed I think EECS punishes creativity. But EECS teaches its students to work their asses off, regardless of whether they came from Lick Wilmerding or Skyline.

Go Bears.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#654

Post by agumonkey »

drakonka wrote: post #364
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

I moved from post-Soviet Ukraine to Alabama in 1999 and started school in grade 6 in the US. For the first 3 years or so my entire math class seemed like just a rehash of things we had already learned in Ukraine. I failed in taking math study seriously at that point as everything was so easy. When things did get hard at some point in high school and I had to learn new things, I no longer had the discipline to really…

> I failed in taking math study seriously at that point as everything was so easy. When things did get hard at some point in high school and I had to learn new things, I no longer had the discipline to really commit.

oh god.. I failed because of this too. By the time I got to college I was so weak I sunk to the bottom in less than 3 weeks. An .. interesting experience.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#656

Post by stjohnswarts »

missosoup wrote: post #268
lsh123 wrote: post #80

Disclaimer: I graduated from one of the top math high schools in Moscow in early 90s, I have MS in Math from Moscow State University, and a half finished PhD from the same place. I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible. Either country doesn’t really require much to finish school and many kids just do the tests without understanding what is going on. What separa…

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

The Russians have it wrong. Their model of government and socializing obviously failed the process of economic selection. Kids are not coddled here and they grow up just fine. I would pit American Scientists against Russian Scientists any day of the week. The same with your Average American Adult vs Average Russian Adult.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#657

Post by Avamander »

ozim wrote: post #633
Avamander wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> go to people giving the course for additional work Always seems to be the solution. It doesn't scale, even if you know how to make a PCB or a cupboard (for example), it doesn't take 0 time. That extra work would be extra time spent, which is nonsense if the goal is to demonstrate competency and reduce wasting time.

Does not scale in what way? Exceptional people are rare, just as I wrote if someone is really exceptional he will blow through all this with no issues and minimal time. There is loads of people who just think are exceptional just like all those people on Instagram.

Does not scale in the way that the day has limited hours, extra work might be okay for a few courses, but not for more because you simply run out of time. There's also the issue that that extra work is given the same grade in the end, but you've spent more time. And no, knowledge doesn't make things take zero time.

Plus, the extra work is still about the same course material - instead of one hello world you write two. It's not hard, it becomes depressing and demoralizing.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#658

Post by iateanapple »

chopin wrote: post #483
iateanapple wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing well at your subjects in AU got you labelled as a nerd. As a Chinese student who studied in Australia for a few years I think you just misunderstand the culture. Most of the popular kids got good grades and were not labelled as nerds. And the nerd kids didn’t really get good grades either. I think Australians are very practical focused (maybe this is what you mean by anti-intellectual?). For example the frien…

Not being profound at statistics should be a strict no-go for anyone practicing medicine. Many great discoveries come from linking different disciplines. I hope there is more to live than just a career. I am very grateful for the broad spectrum I've been given.

> Not being profound at statistics should be a strict no-go for anyone practicing medicine.

I think you will find that your bar would exclude the overwhelming majority of doctors.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#659

Post by TimTheTinker »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #247
TimTheTinker wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s what I meant (and I for intersectionality). Agreed that CRT/I would oppose standardized tests, but that’s only because CRT/I at its core opposes anything objective. And the philosophy of CRT/I has already made significant inroads in American culture. Witness all the accelerated programs that have been shut down, the many recent attacks on objective standards—all in the name of “equity” (which does not mea…

Yeah please share the examples! What you write sounds plausible, but it also mirrors a lot of what we hear from the right that is at times overstated. I'd love to hear a set of sober examples- I don't have any connection to early education anymore and I'm really curious.

Sorry these are coming a whole day later. Here we go:

New York City has (or had?) an active effort in place to cancel/dismantle "gifted" programs in primary and secondary education. Here's the PDF released by their committed last August: https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1c478c_f14e1d13df45444c883bbf... . There are lots of other examples of this phenomenon around the country... I doubt I need to come up with more examples now.

Notably, the University of Chicago came firmly down on the side of free inquiry: http://provost.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/documents/re...

An excellent, charitable, clear-minded discussion on critical theory in general: https://youtu.be/p6DnHxuuXI4

Here's a good introduction to many of the practical, everyday consequences of CRT/I's influence in American culture. It's an interview with Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay (this is part 1, and I think there are 3 or 4 parts in total): https://youtu.be/YDFL3xwEEG8

-- that last one in particular, if you watch the whole thing, is chock full of great examples.

Hope that's helpful. That's all I was able to find in the time I had.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#660

Post by graynk »

missosoup wrote: post #555
sacks2k wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"hence domestically popular tv shows like Big Bang Theory which have 0 audience in countries that value intellect" It's shown in 180 countries worldwide and very popular internationally (Including Russia): https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/International_broadcas... While I don't necessarily love the show, I've known many PHD students from China, Taiwan, and Korea that absolutely love the show. Hardly from countri…

> It's shown in 180 countries worldwide and very popular internationally (Including Russia) If you pick 10 random people in Russia and ask them about this show, all 10 will either not have heard of it or react with disdain. I have no idea where you get the notion that it's popular in Russia. > It's easy to say we aren't popular because we are smarter than everyone else I was popular in Russia. Then I had difficulty f…

> If you pick 10 random people in Russia and ask them about this show, all 10 will either not have heard of it or react with disdain. I have no idea where you get the notion that it's popular in Russia.

And that's why it has 8.6 on Kinopoisk? I don't like it either, but imaginary statistic is not a statistic and your social circle is not the whole country.

> I learned to act like an idiot and not reveal my 'nerdy' (a word that doesn't even have an equivalent in Russian)

Of course it does have an equivalent, it's "задрот" if you're being mean or "ботан" you're old enough to actually have used that.

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