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Apple Faceshield

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Re: Apple Faceshield

#651

Post by DanBC »

cameldrv wrote: post #369
alexbanks wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question was not about the effectiveness of N95 masks in a vacuum, it was correcting your assertion that the people that have died in the hospital, did so because they didn't wear N95 masks. It is possible to wear an N95 mask incorrectly, or to contaminate yourself during the putting on/taking off process. The idea that N95 masks inherently make you immune to exposure is ridiculous. The people that died in the hos…

I think it's pretty simple. If you don't get the virus, you don't go to the hospital or die in the hospital. If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus. Yes, it's possible to make mistakes donning and duffing. However, that same meta-analysis also showed a large benefit for community use of masks, so actual use, not perfect use. To the extent tha…

> If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus.

Do you have a link please, because there's no way that's true.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#652

Post by DanBC »

cameldrv wrote: post #280
alexbanks wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your assertion is "They wouldn't have died if they'd worn an N95 mask", I would refer you to basically any literature about what the point of wearing the masks are. Your overwhelming condescension also make this conversation much harder than it needs to be. I would consider taking a walk and trying to relax.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/ Table 6. Wearing an N95 mask reduces your chance of contracting SARS by 91%. I apologize if my frustration comes through here, but the data is very clear and people are dying in the thousands because they're not protecting themselves.

From your link, about table 6:

> wearing N95 masks (0.09, 0.03 to 0.30, NNT=3, 2.37 to 4.06);

NNT=3 means "number needed to treat". This means that to see the effect at all in one person you need three people to correctly wear a mask.

If 99 people correctly wear an N95 mask only 33 of them have a reduced chance of catching covid-19.

Here are photos of people who have correctly worn an N95 / FPP3 mask. I don't think most of the general public can tolerate this.

https://twitter.com/LondonNurse2015/status/12472750559874252...

https://twitter.com/jbon93/status/1247626644208189444/photo/...

https://twitter.com/RochesterKaren/status/124644595651562700...

https://twitter.com/gabbyjackson95x/status/12479391789623255...

We also know that "doffing" (taking off) the PPE is difficult, and that many healthcare professionals are infected when they take it off. I don't think most members of the public can comply with the complicated donning and doffing protocols.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#653

Post by DanBC »

masukomi wrote: post #641
barry-cotter wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear because if you are in a situation where you need the shield, you also need the rest as well. This is the same class of bullshit the WHO, CDC and FDA were pushing about face masks less than a week ago. There is no way this is worse than nothing. If a face shield used with no other PPE reduces the viral load the average healthcare worker is exposed to by 1…

> There is no way this is worse than nothing. correct. it's not worse than nothing. it's literally not possible to be "worse than nothing". However to your point it only protects against spray. So, yes, it's better than nothing if you're in front of someone coughing / vomiting directly on you. BUT it doesn't do much of anything for the aerosolized particles. Better masks has coverings above the top to prevent those f…

> it's literally not possible to be "worse than nothing"

(I upvoted you. I don't think you deserve downvotes).

It is worse to be better than nothing if it increases risk, and if people don't know how to take it off.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#654

Post by DanBC »

woofie11 wrote: post #628
brirec wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The virus might have multiple modes of transmission. Closing 2 of them reliably a great deal. Sounds reasonable, but how is a face shield a reliable way to close a mode of transmission if people aren’t spitting liquid in your face?

It increases the effective time large droplets need to spend in the air to get to me, and decreases the airflow around me. It's about the same reason plexiglass screens help, and keeping a 6-foot distance helps. Plus, it stops me from touching my face. No, it doesn't stop everything, but it's a buck.

> Plus, it stops me from touching my face.

You would be touching your face if you had correctly fitting PPE, because it's uncomfortable. https://twitter.com/gabbyjackson95x/status/12479391789623255...

Re: Apple Faceshield

#655

Post by brodie »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #635
brodie wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covering your eyes with a clear film is dangerous? Do you regularly suffocate on your glasses or shades?

> You keeps the bottom part loose, so it doesn't restrict breathing. Obviously you weren't advocating for a face mask that only covered the eyes.

I wasn't advocating for anything.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#656

Post by jnbiche »

DanBC wrote: post #652
cameldrv wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190272/ Table 6. Wearing an N95 mask reduces your chance of contracting SARS by 91%. I apologize if my frustration comes through here, but the data is very clear and people are dying in the thousands because they're not protecting themselves.

From your link, about table 6: > wearing N95 masks (0.09, 0.03 to 0.30, NNT=3, 2.37 to 4.06); NNT=3 means "number needed to treat". This means that to see the effect at all in one person you need three people to correctly wear a mask. If 99 people correctly wear an N95 mask only 33 of them have a reduced chance of catching covid-19. Here are photos of people who have correctly worn an N95 / FPP3 mask. I don't think m…

You need to look into that first one. It's obviously photoshopped. The originals are uncomfortable, but not like that. Here's one of the originals: https://twitter.com/error4null1/status/1241896271927009281/p...

More importantly, the imprints and bruises are from full-mask respirators and goggles (and one FPP3 mask), not N95 masks. Have you ever worn one (and been fitted for one)? I have, when I worked as an EMT years ago. I also have worn one N99 or N95 mask for years when cleaning out my guinea pig cages. It's not that bad.

In terms of doffing the masks, it's pretty straight-forward: To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water (via WHO).

I'm not sure what's driving your passionate anti-mask campaign (N95 and otherwise), but I urge you to look into what doctors and public health experts have started recommending after considering the evidence and what we know about how this infection is spreading:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... (US CDC) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... https://www.ucsfhealth.org/education/should-i-wear-a-mask-to... (UCSF) http://www.chinacdc.cn/en/COVID19/202002/P020200310326809462... (Chinese Centers for Disease Control - "Wear a mask when going out.")

Absolutely stay home if you can. It's the most effective way to avoid spreading or contracting Covid-19. But wear a mask if/when you must go out (to grocery store, drugstore, essential job, etc).

Re: Apple Faceshield

#657

Post by sailfast »

brodie wrote: post #538
sailfast wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to leave my house in a month or two. You?

You’re allowed to leave your house. Exercise, pet walking, and essential shopping and other essential activities aren’t banned. Put on a mask and go for a walk in your neighborhood and keep social distancing.

Right - this is obviously what I would do. However, if face shields were helpful for reducing risks for general interaction (no idea if they are) then I’d also want one. The fastest path to leaving the house is reducing the risk of leaving, so some simple PPE (that is more effective than a mask) would be great.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#658

Post by alexbanks »

DanBC wrote: post #651
cameldrv wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty simple. If you don't get the virus, you don't go to the hospital or die in the hospital. If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus. Yes, it's possible to make mistakes donning and duffing. However, that same meta-analysis also showed a large benefit for community use of masks, so actual use, not perfect use. To the extent tha…

> If you wear an N95 mask, according to the best data available, you have a 91% smaller chance of catching the virus. Do you have a link please, because there's no way that's true.

They linked a study and then cherry picked some data from it. IIRC it was a controlled study of ~20 people, and the actual reduction % was "50-90% reduction" where every person ALSO washed their hands a minimum of 10 times per day.

I would also assert that they probably trained each participant on how to use the masks effectively, whereas I suspect OP (and most of the N95 mask hoarders) would contaminate them to the point of being useless.

edit Ah, you responded in a different place saying basically what I just said wrt contamination. Good on you.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#659

Post by cheez »

underwater wrote: post #410
cheez wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more concerned about Chinese suppliers who have privately said they would supply faulty equipment related to corona virus to the US.

Can you provide a source for that? It smells of a rumour people might spread to sow mistrust.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wellthatsucks/comments/fzi9x6

Here you go. The Wechat thread specifically referred to thermometers.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#660

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

brodie wrote: post #533
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Hopefully you are intubating a patient’s trachea and not not the esophagus.

Does esophageal intubation happen much? I was intubated a month ago due to non-COVID respiratory failure. I also ended up getting pneumonia but no one knows when I got it. If that happened to me would my medical team have told me? Speaking generally obviously since you don’t know my case of course.

In general esophageal intubation results in death. The patient is not getting oxygen, and so they die. I believe esophageal intubation gets reported to the Board of Medicine and is a really big deal for the hospital and doctor involved.
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