Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#651

Post by raxxorrax » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

k1m wrote: post #357

nemo wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He fled justice to hide in an embassy. He was fully free to leave, and should have faced justice from the start. Fugitives from justice do not enjoy pleasant conditions - that's not a strike against liberty, but a necessary condition of the rule of law.

I find it remarkable that so many here feel they are in a better position to assess whether Assange's human rights have been violated than experts on the topic at the UN who've spent considerable time looking into his situation.

And even use phrases like "facing justice" in the backdrop of war crimes that cost thousands of lives. No words...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#652

Post by dbdjfjrjvebd » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:07 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #570

pixelbash wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in New Zealand with family in the UK. I have spent the last 10 years flying the other way around the planet instead of via LA because the airports are worse than places like Malaysia. I can't speak to living in the USA but I have lived in Milawe and Fiji, and honestly being poor is definitely bad but some of the stuff happening in the US is a whole other kind of dystopian terrifying.

Is LAX really that bad? I haven't been there in years, but this seems a bit egregious. What terrifies you? The long lines at the bathroom? The food court selection? The lack of charging ports?

One has to buy an addon to my travel insurance just to transit through a US airport...

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#653

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

alfromspace wrote: post #650

btilly wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Constitutionally protected rights??? Amendment 1: Why is "In God We Trust" on our money? Amendment 3: The only time it ever was litigated (in Engblom v. Carey ) the government won because a bureaucrat cannot be faulted for not knowing such an obscure law. Amendment 4: Have you seen what the NSA is doing? Also "unreasonable search and seizure" is, under the doctrine of civil forfeiture, perfectly permissible as lo…

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" Stop preaching fake constitutionalism. You don't understand what you're talking about. Congress isn't establishing a federal religion by putting "…

It's illogical to call a hundred year old concern, one taken up by no less than President Theodore Roosevelt, "Internet".

Let's be clear:

The judicial interpretation is that "In God We Trust" is acceptable only because it is meaningless, despite the fact that it was clearly meaningful to the people who decided to use it, and despite that fact that this supposedly meaningless motto is used in thousands of little ways to mistreat atheists across the country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#654

Post by favorited » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #481

mikl wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most European countries, the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. It might be a bit foreign, but it does help with some cases, like partner violence, where the victim might not want to press charges against a violent partner. Under this model, if the police learns of the crime, they are obliged to prosecute it if possible.

> the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. So state prosecutor can simply drop the charges if she feels like it? in usa people have the right to jury trial. Seems really unfair that prosecutor can unilaterally simply drop your case, wonder why its that way.

This is absolutely no different than in the US. A government prosecutor needs to press criminal charges.

The accused has the right to a jury trial. An alleged victim has no such right.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#655

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #527

jki275 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if you all believe everywhere else in the world is so much better, why stay? For context, I'm married to a person from a real developing country, as it's actually defined. I'm sending multiple family members to school there so they can get out. Every single person in her family has done everything they can to get out. Every single person I know there has done everything they can to get out. Every single pe…

I have never understood this viewpoint of, "If you find fault with country X, then leave!" Sometimes it's applied to companies, tools, etc., too: "If you find fault with Y, then stop using it!" Can you explain this to me? It seems like an extreme way to live that would preclude anyone from living anywhere that's not perfect or using anything that's not perfect. (And nothing is perfect.) Why not just address the criti…

As the saying goes, "patriotism is the last refugee of the scoundrel." "Then leave!" is the argument for those who have run out of arguments.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#656

Post by sachdevap » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #603

sachdevap wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if those secrets are all there are, what good is a democracy. A democracy can't function in the darkness. What restraint would you advocate in not leaking all secrets? Where would you draw the line? Who should be vetting these papers under such strictly pressured timelines? On the other end of the spectrum, would you draw the line with Scooter Libby? Would you draw the line with Trump revealing state secrets to R…

> A democracy can't function in the darkness A democracy also can't function with blinding light shining into absolutely every corner. Otherwise, we wouldn't see nearly as many people concerned about privacy in the democracies of the world. In practice, a grey balance appears to be successful. > What restraint would you advocate in not leaking all secrets? Some awareness of the possible impact of leaks, and awareness…

> Some awareness of the possible impact of leaks, and awareness of the contents of leaked documents. Both Snowden and Manning appear to have failed to read all the content they leaked, which is dangerous. In practice, we have gotten fortunate in that there were no obvious immediate lethal consequences to the leaks. But hope is not a strategy.

You are suggesting they make judgements, but they are not independent authorities on making such judgements. People who are, are making judgements arbitrarily too, hence why being a legit whistle-blower in any organization is a problem. If you read or listen to Snowden, he worked with journalists to proof the leaks. Yes, he handed them to journalists, because if he went through official channels, nothing would have worked out.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#657

Post by kybernetikos » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

alfromspace wrote: post #646

cannabis_sam wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US ”justice” system has replaced justice with vengeance and punishment with suffering..

Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime? Before someone brings up "muh drugs" and only cites stats from federal prisons... "In 2011, 55.6% of the 1,131,210 sentenced prisoners in state prisons were being held for violent crimes (this number excludes the 200,966 prisoners b…

> Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime?

My understanding is that vengeance and suffering are not good teachers and once the vengeance is exacted and the suffering is complete, the criminal comes and and causes more suffering to the innocent.

If this is true, then by arguing for harsh treatment for criminals, you're arguing for a state of affairs in which more innocent suffer.

If causing the innocent to suffer is so bad, then maybe we should be making policy that reduces it.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#658

Post by mikl » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #481

mikl wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most European countries, the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. It might be a bit foreign, but it does help with some cases, like partner violence, where the victim might not want to press charges against a violent partner. Under this model, if the police learns of the crime, they are obliged to prosecute it if possible.

> the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. So state prosecutor can simply drop the charges if she feels like it? in usa people have the right to jury trial. Seems really unfair that prosecutor can unilaterally simply drop your case, wonder why its that way.

I don’t know all the details of the Swedish system, but governments over here are generally much more centralised than you’re used to from the U.S.

Prosecutors are generally not independent, but work for some arm of the justice ministry and as government officials are subject to abuse of power laws, so they can be punished for mishandling cases.

That’s the theory, at least. In practise, it’s not always that transparent what’s going on.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#659

Post by mikl » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

favorited wrote: post #654

dominotw wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the state prosecutor decides who to charge with a crime, regardless what purported victims think. So state prosecutor can simply drop the charges if she feels like it? in usa people have the right to jury trial. Seems really unfair that prosecutor can unilaterally simply drop your case, wonder why its that way.

This is absolutely no different than in the US. A government prosecutor needs to press criminal charges. The accused has the right to a jury trial. An alleged victim has no such right.

Ok, maybe I’ve seen too many movies, but I had the impression that at least for some crimes (misdemeanors?) the victim can opt to not "press charges"?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#660

Post by AlchemistCamp » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #364

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

> The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too.

Many of the world's most dangerous countries and most brutal justice systems are in Latin America. The US looks bad from a northern European perspective, but it's far from the worst in the West.