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I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

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Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#651

Post by tjohns »

geggam wrote: post #460
Ambroos wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally quite well. Pairing means your devices know to look for eachother, and the bitrate of music streaming over Bluetooth combined with the low range means you'll need some unrealistic congestion before things really start to fail.

unrealistic congestion before things really start to fail. aka public transit...

I've never run into Bluetooth congestion problems on public transit or busy streets. BT has a lot of problems, this really isn't one of them.

There are some BT devices that have poor antenna designs and underpowered transcievers, where the proximity of other humans — or even your own body — can significantly attenuate the signal. But this isn't a problem with the spec itself, and there's plenty of devices that have shown it's possible to do it right.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#652

Post by Wowfunhappy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #473
LeonM wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. I prefer the method of Samsung in this case, they clearly state for the monthly update that it is mostly a security update. Where Apple seems to apply marketing by promising 'the best experience yet' and shiny new features with each majo…

> From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. Sure it is, but this is what you get for not separating security and feature updates. I tend to avoid updating applications (both on desktop and mobile) for that very reason (though I do update the OS). If each vaccination you took cam…

> If each vaccination you took came with mandatory remodeling of your house, directed by whims of some "artists", you'd see much more antivaxxers too.

I cannot concur strongly enough. (And I will likely steal this lovely analogy in the future!)

Security is important, and installing security patches is a good practice. But companies use this as an excuse to force the adoption of all sorts of other crap. I'm not willing to put up with that.

I understand that back-porting patches requires some amount of additional effort. But asking gigantic tech companies to support major releases for a few years at minimum should not be too much to ask.

In this regard, Microsoft and Windows 10 are by far the worst offenders. Microsoft develops and releases security-only patches for 1607 and will continue to do so until 2026, but these patches are only available to enterprises. Normal consumers need to either use Microsoft's problem-ridden biannual updates, or be insecure.

Actions speak louder than words. If Microsoft actually held security in such a high regard, they wouldn't hold security patches hostage in order to push other corporate interests. I thus don't feel the least bit of guilt about opting out of MS's entire update process.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#653

Post by oxplot »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #151
oxplot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse Good old shortsightedness at play here. No one looks past this year or years to come when faced with changes. Here's what I think, based on history, is happening here: # Wires are more bad than good for average consumer: a. Neglected security based on assumption that since…

That's a pretty desperate list. a. because wireless is less secure than wired. b. loss and breakage isn't a wired-exclusive problem c. backups? so long as you bring backup wireless things as well, no worries d. Fair enough, but long cables are possible, and in regards to a smart phone, most people carry it on their person so it's not generally a problem - although the freedom to roam about the house with your phone o…

A. Wireless security doesn't improve if everyone continues using wired accessories B. So you replace your accessories as many times as their cables? C. So you have one phone, headphone, etc for each cable you own? The reason people have backups or multiple cables is because of all the other issues: they get lost, cumbersome to carry around, etc

Sounds like your list is a desperate one too.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#654

Post by rusk »

ddingus wrote: post #646
rusk wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a different definition of easy from most people I know.

Grew up poor. "Easy" as well as, "do what it takes" do have very different meanings. To me, a bit of work, perhaps gain a new skill? Not only easy, but fun, cheap, all that. What is hard is having to spend or do work just because of a business model. I really dislike all of that. It is visceral.

With you 100%

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#655

Post by oxplot »

zouhair wrote: post #131
oxplot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse Good old shortsightedness at play here. No one looks past this year or years to come when faced with changes. Here's what I think, based on history, is happening here: # Wires are more bad than good for average consumer: a. Neglected security based on assumption that since…

Oh, yeah, so how come now I have more cables now because of dongles?

Dongles? I'm talking wireless headphones. Dongles to continue using a wired headphone is supposed to be worse experience so you come off it. Think of it as a transition period.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#656

Post by Wowfunhappy »

stcredzero wrote: post #643
tjoff wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elderly? I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings. I had a friend sync with my car bluetooth-stereo, it took a while and from the steering wheel I couldn't be of enough help. But it worked in the end, was quite frustrating though. Then later when I tried to use my phone again it had been lost from the receiver (eventhough…

I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings. Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster. In 2008, Apple introduced iPhone and promised us a future where everything "just works," and where the user and UX are paramount. Taking stock of the last decade, we're basically back to The Inmates are Run…

> Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster.

And just to add onto this, the problem isn't that Bluetooth pairing takes three seconds, per se.

The problem is that we already had an instantaneous, reliable, and universal solution. In it's place is an option that may be better in some ways (namely, wires are gone), but is worse in many others. And for what? A tiny sliver of extra volume within the phone?

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#657

Post by Wowfunhappy »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #629
arsenico wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly why AirPods are an absolutely superior product.

There's still a dance you have to do when you want to change between devices. For example, I want to switch between listening to a podcast on my iPhone to watching a show on my iPad. You'd think that would be quick and easy but it still takes 10-20 seconds.

And it takes longer if the device or OS you want to switch to is not made by Apple.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#658

Post by Wowfunhappy »

tjohns wrote: post #648
falcrist wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHY is this still the case? I mean, Bluetooth is fundamentally just a communications protocol broadcast with some kind of antenna. Yet I don't have these kinds of issues making wifi or cell service work. Who decided to use such a flaky protocol for audio and such, and then remove the reliable connection?

The problem with Bluetooth is the stack is too complex. Too many application-specific profiles baked directly into the protocol, which in turn need to be dealt with by device manufacturers. Bluetooth basically handles everything from OSI Layer 1 through 6 at the same time. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles Add to that great complexity at Layer 1, and constantly changing specs. Bluetooth 1,…

The RJ-45 connector is an open standard that can carry basically anything—internet, video, audio, low-level data, etc—at a high bandwidth and with low latency. Why can't we have a wireless standard that does that?

I want non crappy Bluetooth mice that don't require a separate USB dongle. :(

Edit: To be clear, I'm sure ethernet cables are an entirely different thing and there's actually a very good reason why wireless makes everything more complicated. But, well, maybe that's one of the reasons people would like to stick with wires.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#659

Post by lazerpants »

muse900 wrote: post #414
pookieinc wrote: post #213

We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own path when they don't include the adapter. Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old…

Personally I feel like makers saw an opportunity on 1) boost sales on new headphones 2) get rid of the cable hanging around. I can understand and feel your fathers frustration trying to use wireless headphones, on the other side if they never ever get rid of the headphone jack then users are going to end up never getting trained on how to use wireless headphones. Generally with leaps in tech there are leaps in reduce…

Which wireless headphones do you find to but up to the task of matching the quality of your wired headphones?

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#660

Post by Wowfunhappy »

laurentl wrote: post #450
simonh wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why is that? Are they too old? Latency. When you're making music and interacting with it directly, you can't afford any noticeable latency. When you're passively listening to it, that doesn't really matter. For phone/tablet users the main place this matters is games, due to their interactive nature.

Don’t forget video. Bluetooth adds latency, and “true wireless” (no cable between the earbuds) adds another layer of latency as the signal has to be sent from one earbud to the other. Noticeable enough that you have to manually add delay between the video and audio tracks, if your player allows it.

> and “true wireless” (no cable between the earbuds) adds another layer of latency as the signal has to be sent from one earbud to the other.

This can be solved if both earbuds connect directly to the main device, no? This is how the Airpods work.

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