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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#651

Post by Shivetya »

skywhopper wrote: post #529

I seriously doubt a real study of appliance reliability over the past 70 years would show that the stuff sold in the 50s is actually more reliable or longer-lasting than the stuff sold today. Sure, you can find appliances that old that still work fine, but you don't see the ones that broke down after a year or two--they were junked decades ago and forgotten about. Since you can't grow the supply of working 50-year-ol…

Well counter top appliances are more likely to have survived, there is a decent number of them popping up on ebay. from toasters to blenders. my 1b16 toastmaster toaster can be found there (its over fifty years old and runs like a champ).

I do tend to notice the common theme with modern appliances, especially counter top, is that people just don't treat the equipment nicely. put it away as clean as the day you bought it!

large appliances, especially refrigerators just are never going to be as efficient as modern ones.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#652

Post by dang »

lojack wrote: post #586

Your evidence is still an anecdote, it just involves a couple more people. Still potentially involves some amount of confirmation bias. It stops being anecdotal when it moves away from your personal experience (including the anecdotal experience of your friends) and moves towards an actual scientific study. For Reference: > Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informa…

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13913523 and marked it off-topic.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#653

Post by Bartweiss »

M_Grey wrote: post #111
psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

Well that, and a home appliance doesn't cost 1/7th of your annual budget anymore. Some things were built to last because to justify the expense, they had to last. James May (unusually) made a very good point that the "good old days" is an illusion created by survivorship bias, nostalgia, and failure to understand economics. The survivorship bias especially should be obvious: Lots of cheap crap was made throughout the…

I'm on board with half of this claim. The failure-due-to-defect rates actually are rising, according to systematic studies of home appliances. But the cost decline might actually compensate for that, at least in consumer terms. If you cut costs on the most over-engineered parts of your product, you can often create a less-reliable device that's still more cost-efficient. Of course, whether you pass those savings to consumers is a second question.

https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/25...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#654

Post by admax88q »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #632
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that companies do this sort of thing. The main thing that prevented it in the past was that parts and labour were actually a significant cost, so things would be more expensive (in real terms) than today. When a TV or washing machine could be as much as 100% of a month's salary for a family, people couldn't afford a new one every 4 years. Companies realised this, so they made stuff that lasted longer. Bu…

I'm afraid your corollary won't apply; the lowest wages will just move elsewhere. There already was a company in China that moved production to the US because of wages there (plus transport costs, etc). I could see countries in Africa become the next manufacturing powerhouse(s), direct access to major seaways to both the US, Europe and Asia, etc. I don't know if they have the natural resources though, or the politica…

> if global salaries become more equal in the future,

> the lowest wages will just move elsewhere.

Uhh.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#655

Post by gmac »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #389
mtdewcmu wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that weight makes a big difference when shipping parts or complete machines. So the cost of shipping magnifies when you use heavier materials.

Perhaps when we buy applicances we should just choose the heaviest one.

If that becomes a popular rule then unfortunately it's fantastically easily gamed.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#656

Post by dang »

expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

> Of course this site is dedicated to the idea he expressed

Whoa! Where on earth did you get that idea? This site is dedicated to being interesting. Making things last is interesting.

The software that runs HN has lasted a decade so far and we would love it to achieve 1950s refrigerator longevity.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#657

Post by gmac »

gambiting wrote: post #419
Retric wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are picking an unusually high end example. http://www.aei.org/publication/appliance-shopping-1959-vs-20... 200$ in 1959 for a washer = 1600$ today inflation adjusted. So yes I can go on Best Buy's website and pick a mid range washing machine for 1/2 the price. And yes there are plenty of cheaper examples, but the mid range cost in no way justifies 1/5 the the lifespan.

He said a washer dryer. I can buy a brand new Hotpoint washer for about $250, but you won't find a washer dryer for that price. Also, a sidenote - that Hotpoint washer comes with a free 10 year parts warranty - you have to pay for the engineer to come and install it, but Hotpoint will replace any part of the washer for free, or give you a new one if they can't fix it.

If you have to pay their engineer, there's surely nothing to stop them charging an inflated price that more than covers the parts cost, no?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#658

Post by LordKano »

revo13 wrote: post #618
LordKano wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a $250 grill at Walmart 8 1/2 years ago. I still have that grill but I think I'll only get one more summer out of it. I have had to replace burners and heat shields twice but it still works. Every part that isn't stainless steel is rusting away but fortunately, the internals can be replaced on the cheap.

This is true that you can buy replacement parts. I did that a couple of times with my previous Lowes grill. I find those parts are a race to the bottom as well though in terms of the metal quality. I just got tired of replacing/rebuilding/etc. I found my AOG on clearance at a local shop for $1k.

Those grills look great and at $1k it would be tempting but the $2k grills are just out of the question for me.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#660

Post by zawaideh »

I wonder if a good solution is to introduce a landfill fee on these companies for each product they manufacture that makes it to the landfill and keep a public registry for each brand. This way there is an incentive to make longer lasting products from both a financial and brand reputation perspective.
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