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GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

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Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#641

Post by jazzyk »

codygman wrote: post #585
jazzyk wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys may be thinking about two different contexts: 1. calling someone with a disability a retard (which I would never, ever do) 2. using the word "retarded" in a generic sense. For example: I may have called my kids retarded, in exasperation, for doing something nonsensical. Not elegant, but has been used as a figure of speech, of sorts, for ever. My problem with censoring words (and political correctness in gene…

> a lot of racists (and reverse-racists, it needs to be said) No such thing as reverse racists, it's all just racism and racists.

Agreed, it is just that my example covered one particular race being discriminated, so I wanted to make it clear. For some reason, people think only non-white people can be discriminated against.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#642

Post by nols »

kenrikm wrote: post #631
cmiles74 wrote: post #551

I don't understand how censoring something because "it's offensive to someone" came to be acceptable in the first place. Nearly everything is offensive to someone, it's simply too low a bar. I'm certainly not campaigning for more use of the terms "retard" and "retarded". On the other hand, I've experienced first hand the very common, reflexive and thoughtless use of these words. Whenever it's used in my presence I ma…

As someone pointed out in the thread on Github, the term "Git" is also an offensive term. Who's going to start the petition for Github to change its name? Slippery Slopes Indeed. From Wikipedia: "Git is a mild[1] pejorative with origins in British English for a silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, senile, elderly or childish person.[2] It is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wank…

That's not the same thing though. Calling someone a git is just calling them stupid, calling someone a retard is saying they're so stupid they're mentally disabled and they should feel ashamed for it. It's pretty insulting towards people with mental disabilities.

Even Linus has said he named git after himself because he's so egotistical.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#643

Post by hueving »

hhandoko wrote: post #266
userbinator wrote: post #101

It's particularly ironic to see this coming from a site named Git Hub: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/git#Etymology_1 IMHO as far as offensiveness is concerned, 'retard' is pretty far down the scale... and regardless of whether they have the right to do this, I think this whole "politically correct" movement is a pretty disturbing trend. It's basically encouraging people to become offended more easily, and turns stra…

I agree that the word may be down on the offensiveness scale, but it is still offensive to some people. Large organisations have such policies because they are aware that they are composed of people from diverse set of backgrounds. Unless you know exactly who the message is intended to, the delivery will always sounds vague / generic. Before coming to Australia, I never knew that showing picture(s) of a deceased Abor…

>I agree that the word may be down on the offensiveness scale, but it is still offensive to some people.

Who gives a shit? 'fuck' is offensive to some people and it's all over github. This enforcement is completely arbitrary and this is what is causing the backlash.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#644

Post by shkkmo »

petercooper wrote: post #522
shkkmo wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'retarded' in it's current usage is not offensive. It means "very foolish or stupid." 'retarded' in it's dated usage is offensive, but it wasn't being used in that sense in the repo in question. This dated usage has fortunately fallen pretty much completely out of common usage. If I tell you "my brother is retarded" you know exactly what I mean because if I had wanted to tell you that my brother has a learning disabi…

So like how "lame" used to mean crippled or physically disabled but now generally doesn't in an informal context?

Except for "lame" in a formal context is still a relevant term.

I can't remember the last time I heard "retarded" used with the intention of referring to a developmentally disabled kids. Whenever I do hear that usage, I do point out to those people that the term when used that way is offensive and they should stop using it that way.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#645

Post by seivan »

DanBC wrote: post #272
seivan wrote: post #183

It's kind of scary how many people here consider the word retard offensive. I assume words like "fucker" or "dicks" would also trigger you? I get that Github as a private corporation gets to decide what they want or don't want but that's driven on how many people genuinely get offended so I'm assuming a large portion of people genuinely got bothered by this compared to all the other shit happening in the world.

Search my post history. I use words like cunt or fuck. I don't use the word retard because I recognise that it is frequently used by people committing a hate crime (an actual crime, like violence against the person, or sexual violence, or theft); and I recognise that use of the word contributes to a culture that de-personalises people with LD and makes it easier for doctors to murder them with the justification of "r…

Did you have a privileged/sheltered life or was it rough? I am genuinely asking because you brought up hate crime.

Did you have to endure much of it growing up? Is that why you relate a world that essentially means "dumb" (not physics) it to hate crime.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#646

Post by PopeOfNope »

golergka wrote: post #304
PopeOfNope wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A website that, at the moment, retains a significant percentage of the entire free and open source software ecosystem. No, it's not quite as bad as genocide, but we're not suggesting putting anybody to death as a result either.

It's not a government, it doesn't have a monopoly on violence or information. People use it freely, and they can easily get most of their information out (wikis and issues no, but it's obvious that they are not part of the repo when you start to use it). You can argue that it's bad, but for fuck's sake, don't compare it to a totalitarian regime that killed tens of millions of people. Please.

You can argue that it's bad, but for fuck's sake, don't compare it to a totalitarian regime that killed tens of millions of people. Please.

Why not? Before it became official government policy to discriminate against jews in Germany, it was considered socially acceptable to do so. Those people voted in the totalitarian regime. Recognizing this as a first step towards greater atrocities is not out of line.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#647

Post by jazzyk »

DanBC wrote: post #554
jazzyk wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys may be thinking about two different contexts: 1. calling someone with a disability a retard (which I would never, ever do) 2. using the word "retarded" in a generic sense. For example: I may have called my kids retarded, in exasperation, for doing something nonsensical. Not elegant, but has been used as a figure of speech, of sorts, for ever. My problem with censoring words (and political correctness in gene…

Your child is eating something. You ask if you can try a bit. They laughingly say "no way! These are mine!" Do you then continue the joke? "stop being such a Jew! Give me a chip!" Are you saying it's fine to use that word because it's just a joke? It's not a serious insult?

No, it is not fine to use what you described.

The difference is that you are picking on a particular nationality, while "retarded" is a generic term meaning "mentally under-developed" which, while certainly not a term of endearment, may apply to any human.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#648

Post by kenrikm »

kazagistar wrote: post #510
shadowmint wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, good. I honestly have no issue with people managing to contain their own righteous opinions (for either side of the debate) and not smash thousands of characters of spam and spam images into issue trackers. That's not what they're for. If the issue doesn't affect you directly (and it doesnt ), and you're not a contributor to the project, then dont get involved . There are places for discussions to happen. Gi…

The issue of someone else getting censored affects everyone who might also get censored. Being silent about injustice against others, just because it does not affect you, is umwise.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. [1]

Please note I am not suggesting that this simple issue is in any way remotely related to the seriousness of what this quote refers too. However, plant enough seeds over long enough and you wake up one day without being able to express things that cause other people to be offended. You don't have to like what someone does or says but they should be able to none the less.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#649

Post by rrmm »

Panino wrote: post #609
rrmm wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of censor is "to examine books, movies, letters, etc., in order to remove things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.", right? Github is censoring content on their site according to their TOS. They have a right to. It's not a First Amendment issue. It's still probably worth considering if it's a good thing. Especially, if you plan to host a project that has content tha…

The definition you gave appears to be from Merriam Webster [0]. This is a good starting point, but it's crucial to note that the word "censorship" predates the modern web, with publicly read-write websites. So the word publish [1] has been radically altered as well. As for publishing, have a look at the MW examples: they all cite books or magazines. That's an old conception of publishing that clearly needs to be upda…

Is your objection here based on just the denotation of the word? What's your preferred definition? Are you coming at it from a legal definition (e.g. Black's) or other specific context?

I think the word broadly works in this situation although certainly the leap in context it suggests (from private legal act to illegal governmental action) is unwarranted.

Re: GitHub threatens to shut down a repository for using the word 'retard'

#650

Post by Retra »

okasaki wrote: post #355
Retra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think standards of professionalism have a place in open source, or on GitHub?

Should I be wearing a suit when I'm interacting with github?

Could you maybe use your brain for a minute and try to identify the relevant characteristics of your interaction with a website before you ask stupid questions?
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