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AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

blog.florianherrengt.com

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Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#641

Post by annzabelle »

monocasa wrote: post #511
Shorel wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle I agree with you. The missing part of mathematics education, IMO, would be to focus more into developing the intuition of what something means, instead of the current focus on getting some (numeric) results.

That was one of the biggest changes that happened with common core. Common core itself didn't really mandate this, but it took a reset of the curriculum to insert the new ideas like an emphasis on intuition rather than rote arithmetic.

The problem with common core is that it replaced building arithmetic fluency with less rigorous ways of building intuition, leading to a generation of kids who never gained the basic math skills that are foundational to actually understanding the intuition.

You can't just skip arithmetic drills in favor of intuition and still come out with students who are prepared for further study in math. There's a reason Kumon etc are so popular - parents are replacing the lack of mathematics drills in schools with after school options, leaving behind all of the kids whose parents can't afford it.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#642

Post by 9cb14c1ec0 »

rayiner wrote: post #567
e2le wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are probably imagining that it would be expert developers with a track record of success. I'll admit I am unsure how such individuals would be chosen. I imagine it would be prudent to learn what processes are used by other licensed professions when choosing such individuals. > who write lots of blog posts and books about programming and give lots of conference keynotes I do not think people who write blog posts…

> I'll admit I am unsure how such individuals would be chosen. I imagine it would be prudent to learn what processes are used by other licensed professions when choosing such individuals. Licensing organizations disproportionately attract people who enjoy "administrating" over "doing."

Other those who prioritize profits over providing good customer service.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#643

Post by monocasa »

annzabelle wrote: post #641
monocasa wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was one of the biggest changes that happened with common core. Common core itself didn't really mandate this, but it took a reset of the curriculum to insert the new ideas like an emphasis on intuition rather than rote arithmetic.

The problem with common core is that it replaced building arithmetic fluency with less rigorous ways of building intuition, leading to a generation of kids who never gained the basic math skills that are foundational to actually understanding the intuition. You can't just skip arithmetic drills in favor of intuition and still come out with students who are prepared for further study in math. There's a reason Kumon et…

After school stuff like Kumon was popular before the switch to common core.

And there still are arithmetic drills, it's just not the only focus in early math education.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#644

Post by bwest87 »

Has anyone seen any tools for enforcing that people understand each PR? It feels like there's a new missing piece here that is like CI for humans, where you as the code owner need to basically pass a test (auto generated by AI) about wtf is going on with this PR and why. If that quiz isn't green then you can't ship it...

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#646

Post by gnarlouse »

bwest87 wrote: post #644

Has anyone seen any tools for enforcing that people understand each PR? It feels like there's a new missing piece here that is like CI for humans, where you as the code owner need to basically pass a test (auto generated by AI) about wtf is going on with this PR and why. If that quiz isn't green then you can't ship it...

this might be the only comment on this post worth reading, much less the article...

seems like a petty easy construction, proof engagement kinda thing

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#647

Post by johnnyanmac »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #466
lookACamel wrote: post #418

From the title I thought this post would be about something completely different. The post is about splitting the world into "good" and "bad" engineers with an emphasis on the bad engineer. Ok but what does that have to do with the middle class? The post leaves the best part out. What I thought the post would be about is the dissolution of the White Collar Kitchen Brigade The kitchen is run by the Chef but it needs t…

I think you and the author are arguing the same point. The middle class offer developer that’s unskilled is going to be on the chopping block. Let’s say that there’s a robot that can now be a sous chef. If you have a good sous chef, you might keep that person. If the sous chef poorly executed her role, the new robot sous chef is probably looking pretty good. Fundamentally this is an hollowing out of the middle class.…

The reality using this metaphor is that you have good sous chefs who are being fired anyway because management thinks the rockstar can just get more done with the robot chef. This distinction into "the sous chef got fired because they were bad" is a distraction from the reality at hand in that the people being cut out are all across the spectrum. There are new engineers who dipped their toe in the water and got cut. There are domain experts of 30 years that architected core systems the company relies on that is cut.

Nevermind the aspect that thses sous chefs could one day be rockstars, because no rockstar came straight out of college outperforming their senior's skills decades prior. You're hollowing out whatever isn't profitable at the cost of future talent (and likely the future of the company), but those holding the money don't care. They'll move on the the next company to suck dry.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#648

Post by zzrrt »

WalterBright wrote: post #538
bdangubic wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such test filter out the obvious frauds. if you need garbage like leetcode to filter out "obvious frauds" you got a whole lot of problems in your company/team/...

A colleague of mine came to me for advice. He wanted one of those high dollar jobs at a well-known MegaCorp. He knew a leetcode test was used by them. I suggested that his top priority was to study the leetcode books for the next 3 weeks. I told him those three weeks would be the best ROI he'd ever make. He did so. He aced the test. He got the job with a huge offer. He agreed that the ROI was out of the park! P.S. I'…

Doesn't this imply that, had your friend not taken your advice, he would have failed and thus been an "obvious fraud", but a mere 3 weeks transformed him from fraud to competent programmer?

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#649

Post by gnarlouse »

eshack94 wrote: post #230

This blog post illustrates the importance of NEVER outsourcing your critical thinking or outsourcing decision-making to an LLM. And to never take shortcuts with learning. Learning is hard, but learning things properly allows you to understand what is happening and allows you to ask the right questions about whether the changes an agent wants to make are the changes that will best serve the goals of the project (witho…

> NEVER

with critical thought*

fixed that for you, only sith's (and unreasonable people) deal in absolutes; you almost did!

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#650

Post by johnnyanmac »

i_idiot wrote: post #85

So, blame the engineers now? Most likely they were forced by a manager to push more PRs faster else piped.

Management's job is to take credit for success and deflect to the individuals when failure happens. That's never changed.
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