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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#641

Post by pjmlp »

michaelt wrote: post #509
curt15 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey can you remove MDM from this Macbook so I can install Linux?" Is there no MDM for Linux clients? How do the big tech companies with Linux developer machines (Google, Facebook, etc) manage their inventory? Do they roll their own MDM?

IT departments can mandate tools like ninjaone and kolide, which let them run queries across the fleet of devices, and (as I understand it) basically gives them root-level remote code execution. The corporate VPN (or equivalent) can then perform 'posture checking' requiring that the tools be installed and working before connecting to the corporate network. Obviously, 99% of Linux users have root on their device so no…

Failing compliance in many jobs isn't a simple "ooops, sorry".

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#642

Post by pjmlp »

simondotau wrote: post #410
makeitdouble wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you get a really good base model. Why does it matter to _you_ in particular that the base model is good ? For a decade buying macs I never got the base model, I switched to the Asus ROG series and a Surface Pro, and again I'mm not on the base model of either. I get that MacBooks are very good volume purchases and excellent value for those right in the target, but IMHO that's not the people writing in this thread. I…

Base model used to mean glorified toy with severely compromised fundamentals. The Macbook Neo is not that. It is an excellent screen, excellent keyboard, and excellent silicon, encased in an excellent chassis. As a remote work terminal / casual computing system, the compromises are IMHO almost entirely psychological.

8 GB is certainly a compromise and the main reason I won't consider it, for the price in euros.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#643

Post by pjmlp »

pepperoni_pizza wrote: post #505
cardanome wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

This is a common dilemma. Apple's phones and laptop are 100 % the best in the market, but Apple is a terrible evil company - the walled garden stuff, the "you don't really own your device" stuff, the normalization of enshittification (removing headphone jack, nonreplaceable glued batteries, not giving charger with $1000 laptop, ...) that other manufacturers followed, the gold statue Cook gave Trump as a bribe. But no…

That is how GNU userspace exists in first place, no compromise.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#644

Post by pjmlp »

blazarquasar wrote: post #378
makeitdouble wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a 6 on the scale, and parts pairing, third party restrictions are still in place. For reference, the latest Thinkpad T series is 10/10, so a better build is clearly possible. It is actually bad. Not as bad as previous models, but still bad.

That may be true, but a MacBook is still better value for your money than any of the new Thinkpads, performance and build-quality wise.

Not for European prices, using Thinkpads since 2006, and yes I do have access to Apple hardware at work.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#645

Post by pjmlp »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #108
SoftTalker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't watch the video but isn't the main selling point of the Framework line (from their website) "Designed for easy customization, upgrades, and repairs." I would imagine the Mac Neo is a sealed unit that you use as-is until it's e-waste.

You will be able to drop an old Neo off at an Apple store and they'll recycle it. Same as with most of their other products.

Most countries don't have them, with luck official resellers.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#646

Post by pjmlp »

Havoc wrote: post #238
awakeasleep wrote: post #72

I don't like the comparison's fundamental assumption that they're addressing the same market. If these are both addressing the same market then yes of course the Neo wins. But I think actually one of these is for linux nerds and one is for the masses who barely understand what OS is running on it.

If you've got a device that is both cheaper and more performant then there is very little room for "different markets" arguments. >linux nerds Is unfortunately not enough to carry a product Framework (and windows flavour laptops) will need to respond to the neo. Something along qualcomm's snapdragon is probably the best bet

Only on countries with strong Apple market presence.

The Neo price isn't that great deal in other countries.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#647

Post by pjmlp »

deng wrote: post #82

Well, if Apple killed it, Lenovo killed it even more. I recently was looking for a laptop for a student. The Lenovo E14 Gen7 is 800 Euros here in Germany (where prices are always higher, the MacBook Neo is 700 Euros), it has 16GB of RAM, 1TB SSD, a 2.8k IPS display, a Intel Ultra5 12core CPU, and it has a repairability score of 9/10 from ifixit. Framework doesn't even come close to that package.

This is what I keep telling, Neo outside US isn't a good deal, given the price/hardware combo.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#648

Post by pjmlp »

aftbit wrote: post #623
viktorcode wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people buy Macs for ideology. They buy cause they like it. Framework, on the other hand, is more ideological proposition than practical. Which is fine, because whatever your choice is it should make you feel comfortable.

People _avoid_ buying Macs for ideology.

The irony is that for the last decade I bet most laptops on FOSDEM are Macs running macOS.

It was like that my last presence there back in 2013 (if I get the year right), and I bet it has hardly changed.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#649

Post by pjmlp »

rock_artist wrote: post #451

Framework in general is focused on developers. I think the general target audience is different. So the customization and OS makes a huge difference for a developer. I was excited about the Neo. But the 8GB and storage felt too limiting for development. For daily / home/office this is where the competition is. And it’s not against the Framework. In raw experience even with latest Swift Air, Apple has a great device b…

A specific set of developers.

Framework doesn't mean anything to game developers.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#650

Post by make3 »

drnick1 wrote: post #137

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

this can't be their only market proposition (and is not), because the vast majority of anyone not in CS or IT doesn't care about this, or even know it's a thing
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