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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#641

Post by ada1981 »

ada1981 wrote: post #307
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I was so confused last time I traveled as I watched this brown skinned family getting shaken down for ID by TSA and they literally just waived me past and said didn't need ID. Mind you I've never not been asked to show ID to TSA before this.

Curious about the downvotes here, it's 100% relevant to the conversation and is personal experience. I imagine it's tone policing to ensure we don't criticize the techo-facist edgelord take over?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#642

Post by ehasbrouck »

tonymet wrote: post #262
lingrush4 wrote: post #248

Not sure why the title was editorialized, but this is literally just one person's opinion. The title makes it sound like the legal community universally agrees, which is not true.

It’s also bad legal commentary . The TSA seems to have broad legal authority. The more vague a law is, the more authority the executive branch has , not less (assuming it’s constitutional, and our constitution is also deliberately limited) There are two avenues for recourse: lobbying your congressman or suing the TSA . I’m guessing the ACLU / EFF and other groups haven’t yet sued because the TSA’s legal authority is…

As discussed in the original article, John Gilmore (co-founder of EFF) did sue. "His complaint was dismissed on the basis of TSA policies that said travelers were still allowed to fly without ID as long as they submitted to a more intrusive 'pat-down' and search. The court didn’t rule on the question of whether a law or policy requiring ID at airports would be legal, since the TSA conceded there was no such law."

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#643

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

anonymars wrote: post #634
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither does a 3D scan like an iPhone. As far as facial recognition better because it has up to date pictures. This has been solved without up to date pictures for years. My phone can - on device recognize my son from the time he was 9 to today at 25. If my phone can do it on device, do you think this is a hard problem on a server farm?

I'm quite perplexed on what point you are trying to make by dying on this hill. That this does solve some hidden problem? ("if it really doesn't matter, then why do they need to collect it?") That folks should be conditioned to freely provide any data, scan, or biometrics upon request? When the government says "jump", always ask "how high"?

Yes it’s just as meaningless as putting a cover over your laptop camera, any bad actor that can access your camera can also access your microphone and you can get a lot more information from a microphone.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#644

Post by gaoshan »

Since this is proof that the original and stated point of supplying ID is not valid can we just dispense with the whole charade? It clearly isn't about security if a measly $45 is all it takes to circumvent it so let's just get rid of it entirely.

The emperor not only has no clothes, he's shouting that fact at us.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#645

Post by tonymet »

ehasbrouck wrote: post #642
tonymet wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also bad legal commentary . The TSA seems to have broad legal authority. The more vague a law is, the more authority the executive branch has , not less (assuming it’s constitutional, and our constitution is also deliberately limited) There are two avenues for recourse: lobbying your congressman or suing the TSA . I’m guessing the ACLU / EFF and other groups haven’t yet sued because the TSA’s legal authority is…

As discussed in the original article, John Gilmore (co-founder of EFF) did sue. "His complaint was dismissed on the basis of TSA policies that said travelers were still allowed to fly without ID as long as they submitted to a more intrusive 'pat-down' and search. The court didn’t rule on the question of whether a law or policy requiring ID at airports would be legal, since the TSA conceded there was no such law."

Sounds about right

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#646

Post by cclifforgg »

parineum wrote: post #621
Vicinity9635 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

You are a person, not the people. I disagree with you on what the Constitution says. Luckily, The Constitution outlines how to resolve that dispute. [0] > ... Abraham Lincoln November 19, 1863 Abraham Lincoln was four score and seven years late to the founding, I'm not sure what his opinion has to do with it. [0] https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/art...

This is actually incorrect; Article III does not establish judicial review. Judicial review was established by Marbury v. Madison in 1803.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#647

Post by zbentley »

parineum wrote: post #422
adastra22 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make the losing side pay attorney fees. (This is a general fix for a lot of issues in the legal system.)

That's a good way to stop poor people from trying to sue anyone with better access to lawyers.

Poor people already cannot afford most legal services, and (other than a very small percentage of cases brought on a volunteer or nearly-volunteer basis at the goodwill of law firms) very rarely file suit without legal fees sought in restitution. Of those that don’t, it’s understood that recouping legal fees from lower income clients is far from guaranteed due to bankruptcy risk.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#648

Post by zbentley »

watwut wrote: post #632
m000 wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still. I understand the officers having "qualified immunity". But not the agency. If an agency has shitty officers doing dodgy stuff, it's on the agency. The agents may be declared immune to direct litigation, but any claims and reparations should be automatically shifted to the agency.

I do not understand officers having qualified immunity. They are armed for of the government and they have much lower expectations placed on them the normal citizens. The fact that cops can break laws, actually harm people and then make prosecution basically impossible is bonkers.

It’s a sticky issue. Without QI, it seems very plausible that many law enforcement departments would be seriously hamstrung by continual waves of legal action and thus cost taxpayers a lot more to operate effectively. Not only would many people use a court of law as a fallback from the court of public opinion, but the legal industry would support this given the lucrative monetary and reputational advantages of suing the government.

And I’m saying that as someone extremely pro-curtailment of police/TSA/CBP scope and resources, and extremely critical and aware of the law enforcement abuse and overreach epidemic. This one just doesn’t have an easy solve—not without a massive overhaul of the entire US justice system down to the roots.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#649

Post by zbentley »

alkonaut wrote: post #608

What if an airline requires ID, is that legal? (Say to e.g. sell discounted tickets to 65+ people, or to avoid people selling tickets on)?

Yes, because private companies aren’t subject to the PRA like federal agencies are.

FWIW, I’m not sure that TSA ID verification does indeed have a PRA claim in the way the article asserts, and I am very sure that the PRA is a dumb law that needs to be removed: https://www.eatingpolicy.com/p/why-the-paperwork-reduction-a...

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#650

Post by Izikiel43 »

pjc50 wrote: post #504
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us. Initially, the US tried to be a confederation like the EU or Canada, but it turned out that we needed slightly more federal power than that to stay as a unified country. But the tension between "loose coalition of independent states" and "unified government that grants some powers to the states" is a pretty fundamental theme throughout…

> deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us. And yet when the Federal government deploys paramilitaries to a city to do sweeps of everybody who isn't carrying papers, while also using 2nd-amendment lawful carry as a pretext to murder someone, those same people are very quiet.

Assuming illegal immigrants should be deported as they broke the law and the government has been doing since Obama, wouldn’t having a standardized national id like every other country in the world simplify things? People only have their passport as a national id is strange, as that’s for usage in other countries.

Where I’m from you carry it everywhere like a credit card.

And funnily enough, all legal immigrants in the USA have a national standardized id, it’s called the green card, so that makes it extra funny that citizens don’t have one.

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